Comments on: J.I. Packer: More Catechesis, Please

By: stuck in Toronto

stuck in Toronto — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:24:30 +0000

I also praise God in thankfulness that He will shorten the time of the end for the sake of the Church and His Elect.

By: stuck in Toronto

stuck in Toronto — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 04:25:05 +0000

Gerry and Cathy; #s, 26,27,28. Heaven is listening, Angels have paused waiting, watching. Is there time for one more great revival? One last chance for the wind of the Spirit to move across the face of the waters? Should we continue outward? your words give hope. I thank you. Sooner or later the time of witness of things to come will be. Entrenchment together for strength and preparation to stand, will be the only option left. I pray for mercy and time to lift ourselves high enough. In the name of Jesus Christ Amen.

By: Gerry O'Brien

Gerry O'Brien — Wed, 20 Jan 2010 19:16:07 +0000

Thank you Cathy………….There are others out there…..Isn’t the practice of the Gifts of the Spirit something wonderful? I just keep asking that the Holy Spirit will use me as a vessel in some other ways than those which I have been…..

The Gifts of the Holy Spirit are as much for todays Christian Faith as for any other. Those who think otherwise have lost the Christian Faith possibilities. When the Spirit came down on the day of Pentecost and then upon Cornelius and his household and then on others, it has been passed on ever since and comes down now upon those who seek it. This is my prayer for followers…..Forget about the Denominationalism being as important as the Faith..
Pray that God’s Holy Spirit will descend upon each of us in fire and power and that there will be more healings, prophecies, deliverances and other wonderful manifestations and that there will be revival.

By: Cathy

Cathy — Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:51:03 +0000

Administration, Teaching and Miracles?

People still operate in the Gifts of the Spirit. I have occasionally interpreted tounges (kind of freaky the first couple times) and prophesied. My husband is a developing prophet. I’ve seen people healed, I’ve heard people teach with the authority of the Spirit.

By: Gerry O'Brien

Gerry O'Brien — Wed, 20 Jan 2010 03:19:03 +0000

Ah, I just get so perturbed when possibilities always lead to “religion” and then “religion’ most inevitably to ‘denominationalism’.

Why can’t people just get back to the raw basics of the Christian Faith…..remember that?

The infilling of the “Holy Spirit”… Remember that or is that just to scary for some…I mean the actual reality of it….. like the oft times actuality of speaking in tongues, interpretation of diverse tongues, healing, knowledge, wisdom, prophecy, and the other three that at this moment I cannot get from my brain to my fingertips.

Oh I know, there are actually those out there in Anglican Land who that that Ephesians is a bunch of bunk when it comes to the Gifts of the Holy Spirit…..you know…good for the early Church but not today. isn’t that what micheal Ingham and the pack of followers are kind of promoting…..the new church, the new age, the new way. Now there is the bunk!!

Blessings all,
Gerry

By: stuck in Toronto

stuck in Toronto — Mon, 18 Jan 2010 21:50:28 +0000

Cathy I can appreciate your 3 year old’s need for participation. I believe that withholding this awesome Spiritual exchange until a child fully understands serves the child and the church. The child by instilling curiosity, discipline, and an early gentle understanding of responsibility. For the Church, a reminder and acceptance of Her responsibility to the child.

By: Cathy

Cathy — Mon, 18 Jan 2010 15:28:01 +0000

With respect to the scenario Warren (#15) presented. I don’t think it matters too much which is done, Baptism or Confirmation, but some sort of ‘rite of passage’ should take place, to affirm in the minds and hearts of both the young man and the people around him that something special has taken place. Ceremonies and traditions are powerful things within a culture. This is why most cultures have coming of age ceremony for young people and why people have a wedding in order to get married.

We have had some adult baptisms at my church. We borrow somebody’s kiddy pool for ‘semi’ immersion baptism. In most cases the adult being baptized has already had some instruction and they rarely then go on to be Confirmed.

On a personal level I was baptized as an infant. When I was in my early 20′s I was Confirmed but there were no classes, I was away at university at the time went home one weekend and ‘got it done’. When I was 30 I chose to be baptized in the Jordan River, that is the baptism which holds meaning for me, even if the Anglican church doesn’t recognize it. As for communion, my 3 year old takes communion, she get rather annoyed if she is not included.

By: stuck in Toronto

stuck in Toronto — Sun, 17 Jan 2010 18:14:20 +0000

MARGO – Are you a member of Synod? Please contact me personally (Through Blog Masters).

By: Margo

Margo — Sun, 17 Jan 2010 04:30:32 +0000

In #13, I was responding to what I perceived to be comments intimating Confirmation was an ‘option’ for the adult baptised. Baptism, anointing, Confirmation & receiving Communion are all part of the initiation ‘package’. It’s a ‘one’. This is the early church, not the NT church – although of course, the basics are there.
Warren #15 – some of those things are what I have understood for years. Here are some references from the books on my shelf, or references in the books on my shelf.
Liturgy & Worship ed. by W.K. Lowther Clarke, Ch. on Baptism.
The Didache, Ch. 7; interestingly, even this early, one may baptise by pouring water on the head.
The Church Father Justin Martyr writes of the period of personal preparation (fasting prayer, confession) and Tertullian (around 200) of preparation, sponsors and dates for baptism. He omits reference to Unction & Laying on of Hands.
The Apostolic Tradition of Hippolytus.
Gordon Fee in God’s Empowering Presence unpacks many of the scriptural references to ‘baptism’ and Holy Spirit’, basically seeing Paul as associating the reception of the Spirit with hearing the proclamation of the gospel and conversion, not with baptism (p.862). This implies adults. However, I believe the Holy Spirit is operative at baptism – whether adult or infant – as we believe ‘something happens’ (it is non-repeatable) and it can only be in the spiritual realm.
#16 – Robin G. Jordan – I read your article (down to the Homilies). As I said above, I was actually trying to make a case for not omitting the laying on of hands in the initiation rite. What we do today, or some do today, comes out of the early church, not necessarily the NT church, but other than unction, I do see the seeds of later practice in the NT. Perhaps it is the physicality of the oil to ‘represent’ the Unction of the Holy Spirit.
I must be off – it’s late.

By: stuck in Toronto

stuck in Toronto — Sun, 17 Jan 2010 02:23:50 +0000

“In answer to Warren’s question,there isn’t really anything a confirmed person can do that an unconfirmed person can’t. When I was a child you couldn’t take communion unless you were confirmed, but today that isn’t the case.”

Maybe, maybe not. One thing is for sure in my book, the more of Christ an Anglican young person, has, the better His or Her chances are of entering life. To speak in any way negative of Confirmation is also in my book under the heading Don’t —- Me Off!!!