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ANNUAL PLAN
for
2010

Members of Synod:

After half a century of attending Synods in an Anglican setting, there is not much that
puzzles me about the overall process. However, this time I admit that I have met my match
and I am composing a document primarily because I was requested to do so by those who
were planning the “Governance” procedures for our newly launched church.
I am not complaining about the request to do this, but rather I am admitting up front that
even after a number of discussions and explanations, I still am far from certain as to what I
should be bringing before you this afternoon. Normally, policies and concerns are spelled
out in the Bishop’s Charge to Synod, which, as I said last year, was similar to the Speech
from the Throne in the parliamentary world.

One thing this accomplishes is that it has cut down by several pages the length of the
Charge, which already is too long, since the issues I will raise here will not be regurgitated
again tomorrow. However, even with this preamble, I do not want to trivialize or minimize
the importance of any of these items I now put before you. Each one is of paramount
importance and is to be kept in mind throughout this afternoon’s workshops (which follow)
and indeed through the decision making process of Synod.

1. Prayer.

It goes without saying that congregations pray. Or at least it should go without saying. Most
of you who have been on this pilgrimage are aware that we have reached our present
plateau through concentrated prayer across the land.

Those in leadership in a parish must make provision for this gift to be exercised on a regular
basis throughout the week and especially when we are called upon to uphold special
situations and when it is obvious we are under attack. Deacon Garth Hunt has been
invaluable in the prayer guide issued each month. Our prayer life, personally and
corporately must be strengthened rather then reduced as our numbers grow and we
mature.

2. Sacrament

I am especially referring to the Holy Eucharist here, but this is not meant to minimize the
other major Sacrament ‐ Holy Baptism, nor the five others that often bear that name.I would like to feel that any member of ANiC would have the opportunity to receive Holy
Communion at some time every week (and particularly on Sunday when possible) in the
year. This is not to suggest that there is not a space for Morning Prayer or Prayer and
Praise, or Evensong, as there most certainly is. But, as I was taught as a boy, we are to
attend “the Lord’s own service on the Lord’s own day”, I would like to think that somehow a
Sunday is not complete without it. I would like the Holy Eucharist offered at some time
every Sunday in order that those of our people who desire it may be fed with both Word
and Sacrament at least weekly.

I am aware that not having control over our property often precludes this happening on
weekdays and the Major Holy Days of our Calendar.

3. Youth

I am dismayed that there are so few people in the Youth Category registered for this Synod.
I apologize to those who are here that they do not have a more of their peer group to share
their concerns and their hopes and aspirations. Yet, I am sure that all here will strongly
agree with me when I pledge that we will listen to what you have to say intently, and we
encourage you to boldly come to a microphone when you feel so moved.

4. Money

From the outset, we stated that as one of our foundational principles we would encourage
and promote the biblical principle of tithing. I do not think this is an optional matter to
which we pay lip service. Parishes need to have this subject regularly on their agenda and
to promote the concept through good solid teaching.

So far, and we are in our infancy, sufficient parishes have adopted this concept successfully,
with the result that we can plan our agenda without worrying about financing it. Still, I pick
up, as I move across the country, hints about fund raising schemes to carry out our work.
It is my strong prayer and desire that we do not slip back into that old way of doing things.
In my blunter moments I often say, that a parish that cannot survive and prosper on the
free will offerings of its members does not deserve to.

My friends who belong to churches that include tithing as one of the conditions of
membership, tell me that even in areas where the income is modest or depressed, when
members tithe, having sufficient funds to operate is never a problem.


5. Theological Education.

This is my fifth and last point. It is an extremely critical one.

Although we have pledged ourselves to a fresh new start based on refreshingly new
approaches, we all are aware of how easily we slip back into the old ways. They are
ingrained in us. They come as second nature to us – almost as automatic as reflex actions.
I have stated before that Theological Colleges not living up to their mandate have been a
major factor in plunging us into our current crisis. We need to be able to approach
seminaries that prepare people for ordination and tell them our needs rather than have
them dictate what is best for us – and consequently the Church at large. We need to restore the time when glancing at the masthead of a theological diploma will be a
guarantee that the person received a sound, biblically based education, that was not unduly
influenced by the political correctness and desire to accommodate the “cultural trends” of a
society that sadly has lost its way.

We need to keep the following factors in mind:

1. That ordination is not the only way faithful persons can use their gifts and talents in
ministry.

2. That we need to spend more time examining a perceived vocation in more depth and
over a longer period than heretofore.

3. Recognize that at this stage we have more trained people ordained, or ready and waiting
to be ordained, than we have congregations that can sustain them. Yet they often have
much to offer and their gifts are sorely needed. So, should we not be exploring other forms
of ordained ministry that in the past have had titles such a “worker priest” and “tentmaker”
just to name a few.

4. That an insistence be placed on Continuing Education on an annual basis and at all levels.

This list is by no means exclusive – and again I say, we must think outside the box.

So, in summary, here are the five points in the Bishop’s Annual Plan for 2010.

1. That Parishes all become storehouses of prayer.
2. That our people be given the opportunity to receive Holy Communion each week.
3. That Youth involvement in Parishes and Synod be emphasized.
4. That tithing be stressed as a part of our membership in the Body of Christ.
5. That in depth study and action be taken in the field of theological education.

Respectfully submitted:

+Donald

65 Responses to “Bishop’s Annual Plan for 2010”

  1. 1
    Winter Traveler says:

    Refreshing. It works for me.

  2. 2
    obituary says:

    Re “YOUTH”. Yes it was a sorry set of pictures of the synod where the procession was led by a middle aged male crucifer and two lady candle bearers. I was gobsmacked to say the least. Where are your youth? This with the world watching was the time to bring them forth.
    It all looked so sad. It looked a spent force right off the bat. Somebody needs a PR person on deck.

  3. 3
    David says:

    This fellow:

    doesn’t look that old – and hardly a spent force.

  4. 4
    Warren says:

    Obit (#2), are an adherent of the church growth movement? Seeker sensitive stuff and all?

  5. 5
    Warren says:

    That should be, ” are you an adherent . . .” (#4)

  6. 6
    Kate says:

    Good grief, obit, think about it for a minute. Who has the time to go to synod, especially the weekday sessions? The retirees, and the people with some vacation time to burn off, and the full time priests. Hardly fair to judge the strength of a movement on the age of the people who make it to synod.

  7. 7
    AMPisAnglican says:

    Kate (6)
    You raise an interesting point. How are people (especially the youth) supposed to attend a Synod that is scheduled for weekdays? Perhaps we should make an effort to schedule such big events to be more accomodating to the youth. Perhaps weekends, March break, or during the summer months?

  8. 8
    Kate says:

    Well, the priests have to have time to get back to their parishes for Sunday service. I don’t know that there is an easy solution.

  9. 9
    AMPisAnglican says:

    The challenges are there of course. But I believe that youth participation is very important, and an effort should be made to include them and encourage their participation. Some suggestions for consideration:
    If the Parish Priests are away from their Parishes, have the sermon recorded ahead of time to be played during the service, or perhaps even better arrange a live web cast from Synod.
    Have he sermon printed ahead of time for a layperson to read to the Congregation, and with no Priest present have a Service of Morning Prayer instead of Holy Communion.
    For those Parishes that are close enough, arrange bus transportation to Synod so that these Parishes can have their Sunday service at Synod.

    Does anyone else have any other ideas/suggestions?

  10. 10
    Cathy says:

    Encourage the gifting of lay members of the congregation. Have somebody else do the prayers, a different person do the sermon, a small group of people do a drama.

  11. 11
    Margo says:

    Absolutely Cathy – #10 – the first time ‘we’ did a lay led morning prayer as the rector was away (many years ago) – I officiated (with about 6 full hand written pages of instructions to get me thro’ it), 2 readers for the readings, 3 folk did a five minute [or less] ‘sermonette’ each, I think I did the prayers, another did the children’s focus – it was great – - – besides which – Morning Prayer is a Daily Office and is really good when it’s lay led – and talk about involvement – there were lots of people there.

  12. 12
    NLees says:

    Ouch. I think I just became middle-aged. At thirty-two!

  13. 13
    JamesW. says:

    Interesting comment:

    Recognize that at this stage we have more trained people ordained, or ready and waiting to be ordained, than we have congregations that can sustain them. Yet they often have much to offer and their gifts are sorely needed. So, should we not be exploring other forms of ordained ministry that in the past have had titles such a “worker priest” and “tentmaker” just to name a few.

    This is one area where the ACiC and TEC have something in common with the ACNA – they both have lots of parishes unable to support a full-time priest. In the ACNA this is because the parishes are small and starting out, and there is a lot of people who have caught a vision of an Anglican future in North America. In TEC and the ACiC, there is the continued bleeding of members out of parishes so that a growing number of parishes are no longer viable as “full-time clergy” parishes.

    I think that the concept of “tent-making” priests will become a growing reality in North American Anglicanism and it is good to see Abp. Harvey address this. I think that this will represent a major cultural adjustment for Anglicans, but one that will prove positive in the long-run – at least for newly planted churches, as it will require lay involvement.

  14. 14
    Kate says:

    #12 Just wait till the emergency room doctors start looking like they belong in junior high school…..

  15. 15
    stuck in Toronto says:

    Not withstanding the difficulty in accepting criticism about a truly outstanding event I think Obit makes a worthwhile observation. I asked a young man while watching the consecration of our three new Bishops this question – “Who do you think is the most important person here now” he stumbled a bit and said “I guess our new Bishop’s”. I told him it was a good answer but not the correct one. Naturally he finally asked “who then” I said “you”.

    The circumstance of generational progression in our church began to wain some time ago. Our church is directly responsible. Not that we didn’t care enough about our youngsters, heaven forbid, but that we failed to adjust to and adequately compete with our changing world/culture etc.
    Here are some suggestions

    There are three main headings Discipline Teaching and Identity.
    Discipline-
    At Baptism – (Stage 1) a life long support system should be in place in the community from day one, if it is at infant baptism than the responsibilities of the parents and God parents in conjunction with the community must be emphasized. Their committment to the life program and the community must be fully understood. This is all for the sake of the new child of God. As the child grows an unbrella of love, affection and a kindergarten of joy is created. As soon as the child has reached an age of cognizanse He or She is gently moved into an area of responsibility (Stage 2) Junior choir, junior server, junior helper, junior drama, junior reading (all part of the LLSS) this begins IDENTITY. Note-up to this point Teaching and discipline are a shared experience as is responsibility for failure. (Stage three) As the childen develop they are moved (promoted, honoured, Blessed, into an intermediate enviorment (the big kids). Training, TEACHING and disciplines continue but slowly shift from full joint participation to singular self responsibility but still with full mentoring in preparation of (Stage four). This begins What I call in the LLSS the year of PREPARATION and TEACHING. The age is secondary to the assessed ability and readdiness for Senior Responsibility. It culminates in the persons long desired and great acheivment (because it was prepared that way from the very beginning) The Sacrament of Confirmation, This should be our churches’ greatest celebration, it should take place at the diocesan level and should kick-off every second or third Synod with a two day period of praise worship and final preparation (fasting prayer etc) whereby the candidates are included in the opening pagentry and Spirit filling procession to then be presented to the bishop for final examination as witnessed by the church (synod) an then to receive the Laying on of Hands, the empowering of Holy Spirit thus being Born anew and welcomed into the adult family of the church. (Stage five) begins with the newly confirmed participating in the rest of synod as observers. from this point they move into areas of senior responsibility Senior Servers, Mentors, etc. always under the watchful eye and assesment of their Priest. THere is a stage six were seniors develop leadership training in preparation for Ministries ordained and otherwise

    Note 1 in the early church Confirmation was once common as a “sacrament of maturity”
    2. I’m sure your aware that there is much “filler material” required.
    3. The success of this venture rests on the following
    A; The understanding and participation of the Trinity
    B; Cohesive leadership, programming, and communication at the Provincial level. (unity)
    C; The factoring in of Faith at every level.

  16. 16
    Warren says:

    Stuck (#15), although telling the young man that he was the most important person might have sounded nice in a secular kind of way, it runs counter to Scripture (Gal 3:28).

    I think many evangelical children’s and youth programs put the emphasis in the wrong place (some very much so), but your suggested program will have a tough time competing. Things like “junior choir, junior server, junior helper, junior drama, junior reading, etc.” don’t have much cachet in our day and age.

    You’ve also said nothing about the role and responsibility of parents. In my experience in working with kids in a church environment (something I’m still doing), it is quickly apparent whether the parents are active participants in the spiritual growth and development of their children or whether they expect the church to look after that department.

    Your program also seems very focused on those who are born and raised in the church. Do you see any place for inviting children from unchurched families? Children who may find the environment very foreign and behave in a manner totally unexpected (and maybe undesired)? These kinds of children may get no support from home, and this is where the Christian community can play a critical role.

    I don’t have a lot of answers, but I think the way ahead is more complicated in the 21st century than you have suggested.

  17. 17
    ML says:

    Further to youth at Synod and confirmation services at Synod: it was suggested that youth are not able to come because Synod is during the week. That is also part of worldly thinking. Does school come before church in importance? This is a sore spot with me because people who would “force” their children to go to school often refuse to “force” their children to go to church! That, they insist, must be a matter of choice for their children. It is high time that we get our priorities straight.

  18. 18
    Kate says:

    I don’t think it is part of worldly thinking. You can be an active participant of church life without ever attending a synod.

  19. 19
    Warren says:

    Kate (#18), I’m sure there’s a law somewhere in Leviticus commanding the Children of Israel to participate in all Synods. You just need to look harder. ;)

  20. 20
    stuck in Toronto says:

    Warren #16; Sorry, I cannot see the relevance of Gal 3:28. The Church is in a battle for her very life blood, read FUTURE. We are losing that battle across the spectrum, That young man represents our future. The only thing secular is the intense competition we face (principalities and powers). This requires a complete paradygm shift in relation to our understanding of the importance of our children. The “cachet” you mentioned is exactly were we need and lack focus in the representation of our Lord to our young ones.
    Your third paragraph is wrong. I repeat – “a life long support system should be in place in the community from day one, if it is at infant baptism than the responsibilities of the parents and God parents in conjunction with the community must be emphasized. Their committment to the life program and the community must be fully understood.”
    Your fourth paragraph – I have quoted Pastor Warren’s speech at Plano in which he explains the neccessity of proper preparation for those whom God will send. Although as has been said, Warren himself is a pretty good draw I believe he spoke a truth that we (Anglicans) have set aside as a result of complacancy over years and years of self generating comfort. We have found ourselves gagging in frustration and in desperation rewriting the gospels. We have forgotten the practice of factoring Faith. In other words we don’t whine and cry about declining attendence. We act….and pray…..and act, in sure belief our prayers are answered.

    I smile at your last paragraph Warren – two days Warren – the 21st century? who cares? it’s the Gospels, the epistles, the lessons, the church of the first century …that grain of mustard seed and our Lord Jesus Christ then, now, and always.
    God bless you

    ML – Dig in – We are at war, I so need support.

  21. 21
    Warren says:

    Stuck (#20), some precision in the use of language would be appreciated; most important person ≠ our future (in case I failed to use html code correctly, the ampersand followed by ne; is supposed to produce the not equal to sign).

    As is often the case, I’m struggling to follow your train of thought – in both comments #15 and #20. Can you tell me in plain English what you’re proposing? Did you imbed a quote from Rick Warren in your comment at #15 without attribution?

  22. 22
    Kate says:

    ML – Dig in – We are at war, I so need support.

    I think that’s a bit of an over reaction.

  23. 23
    Warren says:

    I’ll give Stuck the benefit of the doubt and assume that he means at war with Satan. Although we may disagree over the best means to nurture our children in the faith, hopefully we all agree that it is critically important to do so.

  24. 24
    AMPisAgnlican says:

    I had a thought last night. Here in Ontario high school students are required to perform a minimum of 40 hours volunteer/community service time, or else they will not graduate. Could participation at Synod qualify towards this service time? Judging by what my niece was able to do that qualified (working at her mom’s horse riding school) I would say that the rules are very “loose”. It may be worth looking into.
    In Faith.

  25. 25
    Cathy says:

    You know, we are making some assumptions here as to why there weren’t very many youth at Synod. Maybe we should ask them. Are there any youth on this blog who are members of an ANiC church (or can anybody easily ask a youth). Were you at Synod? Why did you go? Were there any specific challenges for you to be able to go? If you didn’t go why not? Were you just not interested? was there lack of funds? did it conflict with something else in your life?

  26. 26
    stuck in Toronto says:

    21 Warren – Until the church provides SUFFICIENT RESOURCES both human and monitary in the leadership, teaching, and creation of identity, of our young people We will continue to fall behind in the continual secular contest for the attention of our children (and in many cases their parents). Any plainer and I’d be asleep. with reference to quoting Pastor Warren I should have said “in an earlier post.

    22 Kate “I so need support” because Of who I am, I lack confidence, just one of the pieces of luggage I have yet to jettison.
    As for war of course it’s Satan, but also his minions, and elements of humanity that have been “snared” – this is “principalities and powers”. There is no question total victory was won at calvary but our vigilance and resistance is needed exponentually as time moves forward. Your assessment as an “Over reaction”, without supporting dialogue requires clarification. Consider the following;
    Revelation 12: 9-12 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
    11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

    #24 AMP what a tremendous idea, up the flagpole – ANiC Newsletter,

  27. 27
    stuck in Toronto says:

    One last thing at Synod We sang “Onward Christian Soldiers” I think it’s been some 40-50 years since I last sang that hymn – praise God it was so familiar and yet so much more relevant
    http://www.hymnsite.com/lyrics/umh575.sht
    I took time to say a quick prayer for the mental giants that removed this kind of militancy from our paradygm.

  28. 28
    Kate says:

    The possibility of sending a youth delegate wasn’t even mentioned in my parish, as far as I know.

  29. 29
    Warren says:

    Cathy (#25), I can’t base this on hard evidence, but my hunch is that the youth demographic (i.e., sub 20) you are discussing has little interest in blogs. I suspect that baby boomers and the age bracket below them (do they have a name?) are driving much current blog activity. For most youth, blogs are passé, and are something their parents are interested in. Bottom line – don’t be disappointed if you don’t get a response to your call for input because I doubt that many youth read this blog. I don’t blame them either – spending time hanging out on this blog is the electronic equivalent of sitting in the corner listening to your grandparents argue with their cronies. Not cool.

    Participating in a Synod may appeal to a small percentage of youth, but I suspect they would be the exception rather than the rule. Kids are smart and they realize that any input they might provide would have little impact (I know I will get argument on this point, but I believe it is true). Attending a Synod could be educational, but it could also be demotivating to youthful enthusiasm and idealism.

    I have not attended a Synod, so what I have to say may well be off mark, but I posit that the structure, philosophy and conduct of a typical Synod runs counter to the forms of communication most used by the sub-20 demographic. So, is the solution to force them into the Synod model, or to look at a completely different pardigm? I also posit that considering different paradigms will be difficult for many of the regulars on this blog (myself included) because most of us are likely not up to speed on the methods that our children and grandchildren typically use for a lot of their day-to-day communication.

  30. 30
    Warren says:

    Stuck (#26) said:

    Warren – Until the church provides SUFFICIENT RESOURCES both human and monitary in the leadership, teaching, and creation of identity, of our young people We will continue to fall behind in the continual secular contest for the attention of our children (and in many cases their parents). Any plainer and I’d be asleep.

    It may be plain to you, but I don’t see anything in your comment that a young pastor involved in a church plant could grab onto to help him move forward. Is your only hope that “the church” (whatever you mean by that) will provide more resources? Money and people are the solution? If you were part of that church plant and the young pastor came to you asking for practical suggestions concerning children and youth, what would you offer him?

  31. 31
    Kate says:

    baby boomers and the age bracket below them (do they have a name?)

    Yup. Generation X. We’re the folk who couldn’t find jobs because the baby boomers gobbled them all up.

  32. 32
    Warren says:

    Kate (#31), I thought Gen X was a little younger, but I guess you’re right (Wikipedia knows all). I fall right at the transition between the baby boomers and Gen X; maybe that explains why I don’t seem to fit anywhere.

  33. 33
    obituary says:

    Well Bless my Prayerbook! So glad I stirred this tempest up re youth at synod.
    I do see that having the synod during the week may have caused difficulty for some youth to attend; it is not what my complaint was mainly about. My observation* is that your processional party should have been three teenagers or younger types. (*I gleaned this information from the pictures posted here about the Thursday’s activities BTW.) They should have been found. (Home schooled types are usually good for this if all else fails but found they should have been.) Its public relations, advertising and good training of the future leaders all rolled up in one folks.
    BTW I take it that N Lees is the man in the picture here above? Thirty two? Yes thirty is the youth of middle age my friend.
    All that aside it does show up a very pressing problem for any Anglican church organization if it can not muster youth for things like this. (Greeter to services comes to mind. Nothing like being welcomed by a fifteen year old to attract more young people.
    Any Anglican type church that does not use their youth from everything from servers to side’s people is in trouble or headed there. **My opinion and you can take it to the bank.)

    ** As for my opinion I am very involved with that geriatric body known as the Greater Niagara Branch of the Prayerbook Society whose 2009 executive happens to be all young men under thirty lead by a teenager of nineteen. And that august body was approached by the then president of Niagara Essentials John Pennylegion at last year’s AGM to come and help with a workshop on how to attract youth and hold them. Which we did for him.
    It seems the efforts of the Society with the Cranmer Conferences and Saint Michael’s Youth Conferences etc. are very effective and recognized as such by some.
    Also FYI there are quit a few of those young members of the Niagara executive who are members of the ANIC beside the ACoC etc.
    So therefore I give you my biased opinions when I see middle aged crucifers and servers at synods.

    Just one more thing. When the PBSC comes calling and wants to advertise something they do like one of the conferences please do not spurn them as what happened in one of your major churches last year. Rather putting off wouldn’t you say? But we keep trying and we will be back.
    So there is my rant and trumpet blowing for tonight. Take it as you will.

  34. 34
    Warren says:

    Obituary (#33) said:

    All that aside it does show up a very pressing problem for any Anglican church organization if it can not muster youth for things like this.

    Why?

  35. 35
    Warren says:

    The “why” in #34 should not be part of the quote.

    Fixed. –admin

  36. 36
    Kate says:

    When the PBSC comes calling and wants to advertise something they do like one of the conferences please do not spurn them as what happened in one of your major churches last year. Rather putting off wouldn’t you say? But we keep trying and we will be back.

    Please don’t make vague accusations like this. What church? Why? If you can’t provide details, the statement doesn’t mean a whole lot. Besides, complaints like that are better dealt with directly, don’t you think?

    Not being able to muster teenagers for synod means absolutely nothing. If our parishes were devoid of anybody under 30 you’d have a point – fortunately, this is not the case.

  37. 37
    Kate says:

    Obituary, I have a question for you. If you had to choose between an Anglican church that used the prayerbook, but the priest openly said that he didn’t think it was necessary to believe in the resurection; and an Anglican church that didn’t use the prayerbook, but the preaching was orthodox; if for some reason or another, those were your only two choices, where would you go?

  38. 38
    stuck in Toronto says:

    Obit – tread lightly, stupid, leading and trick questions are usually employed to fill a void.

  39. 39
    Kate says:

    Or, I might just be genuinely interested in his answer.

  40. 40
    David says:

    stuck [#38],
    Let’s keep things polite and not refer to another person’s comments as “stupid”.

  41. 41
    David says:

    We are off topic, but here are a few observations on the use of the Book of Common Prayer:

    I like it and think that the theology is generally better than the BAS.

    Naturally, I am talking about the 1549 version, not the trendy 1962 Canadian BCP.

    That being said, I was at a meeting last year where the use of the Prayer Book was being discussed by Essentials members, ANiC members and also some visiting Africans. A number of the western Anglicans were strongly opposed to using anything other than a 1960s version of the BCP. The Africans made the point that for them to reach the unchurched, they needed to use contemporary language that the common man who knows nothing about Christianity could understand and relate to – and that’s what they do.

    Coincidentally, Africa is rapidly becoming the centre of Anglican Christian orthodoxy and is the fastest growing expression of Anglicanism anywhere.

  42. 42
    NLees says:

    @obituary #33 – No, I’m not the man in the pic. (Smile.) But I am a young woman who found it humorous that a man who looks to be somewhere in his thirties would be called middle-aged! Thanks for the chuckle…

  43. 43
    stuck in Toronto says:

    David Your #40- With respect for your authority on this blog, I was referring to questions not comments. Perhaps I should have used the word silly instead of stupid.
    I dislike personal attack as well and certainly would not drop the gauntlet. I do find it difficult to resist picking one up. Especially when the purpose is so clearly to avoid the issue.

    Kate # 39; yes Kate you might. Except your question #39 begs more questions than it does any definitive answer.

  44. 44
    Kate says:

    Stuck you are off base. There was no attack, there is no issue that I am avoiding, I addressed the issues Obit raised in comment number 36. I asked a question. Period.

  45. 45
    obituary says:

    Kate #36. Details can be provided but would prove an embarrassment to some innocent young people and yes the issue was brought up directly to the party involved a few weeks later.
    Kate #37 Is there such a thing as an Anglican church without the prayerbook?
    But besides the flack thank you all for looking at this issue re youth. And Warren this synod was so especially important as it was a first off with new bishops etc. So many were watching. Having a child leading the church has huge portent symbolism as to the future. Things like this should have been agonized over. I say God is in the details. (Some may say the opposite.)

  46. 46
    Warren says:

    Obituary (#45), my intent is not to trivialize the value of youth participation in a Synod – I agree that there could be some value. It just seems to me that, in the big scheme of things, the number of youth attending a Synod – whether it is the first or not – is not an important indicator of the spiritual health of the ACNA. If the participants were all 50+ (or even 60+), it wouldn’t bother me at all so long as they were mature Christians who had been chosen for their wisdom and discernment. There were many spiritual disciplines I tried to impart to my children when they were growing up, and I encouraged (or required) them to particpate in many activities. Encouraging them to participate in a major denominational meeting, however, whose primary purpose was church business, never even crossed my mind.

  47. 47
    Kate says:

    Yes, Obit, there is, and you didn’t answer my question.

  48. 48
    stuck in Toronto says:

    Kate – Is there such a thing as a priest using the book of Common Prayer and yet at the same time denying the crucifixion? If the answer is yes than that priest or that church isn’t Anglican. As for your second question, how can preaching (Anglican) be Orthodox without the traditions, scriptural interpretations (39 Art.) Solemn Declaration etc. etc.

  49. 49
    Warren says:

    In #45 Obituary said:

    Is there such a thing as an Anglican church without the prayerbook?

    This is an interesting question – one I assume you have asked rhetorically. My initial inclination was to answer the question in the affirmative, but then I read Packer and Curry’s : memo from 1998 in which the BCP is described as “the standard and measure of doctrine and worship in the Anglican Church of Canada.”

    This gave me reason for pause.

    There is still something I find bothersome, however. To follow your assertion (again I’m assuming you asked your question rhetorically) to its logical end, it seems to me that you must also conclude that people from language groups and dialects, who do not have the BCP available to them in their own language, cannot worship collectively as true Anglicans – they must be called something else. Were this true, I would hope that every prayerbook society would have translation at the top of their priority list and that the Church as a whole would feel a great sense of urgency towards translation. Where does translation rank as a priority in your prayerbook society?

  50. 50
    Warren says:

    One of these days I really ought to take some formal training on the proper use of html.

    –Fixed. Admin.

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