On from the last article, the total inability to see the problem is not limited to the ACoC.
(from here)
A bestselling author and Anglican priest has launched an outspoken attack on the Church of England and revealed that he is converting to Catholicism.
GP Taylor, whose children’s book Shadowmancer became an international bestseller and is being turned into a film, accused the church of sinking “into a liberal pit that was no earthly use and offered no hope, no love and no grace”.
Writing in the Yorkshire Post, Taylor said the decision had been “heart-breaking”. He concluded: “Like so many other Anglicans, I am at that place where I feel I must desert a sinking ship.”
The former vicar of Cloughton, North Yorkshire, added: “The church I once loved has, on the whole, become the spiritual arm of New Labour. What the rank and file believes is truly not the same as the leadership.”
He accused bishops of spending “more time preaching about climate change” than teaching the Gospel and also hit out at Dr Rowan Williams for how he had dealt with splits within the church: “Stupidly, the archbishop of Canterbury has tried to paper over the cracks and keep the church together…
The response to this broadside?
Ben Wilson, a spokesman for the Church of England, said Taylor was entitled to his opinion. But he added: “One would have thought that as an ordained Church of England minister he would appreciate that it is the political breadth of the church that enables it to engage with people across the nation. Church attendance levels have been broadly stable for the last decade.”
“Church attendance levels have been broadly stable for the last decade.” as the population has been growing exponentially , broadly speaking of course.
Actually the shame of it is that the church attendance had not been growing!
Also, this response seems to miss the main point: the goal of the Church should _not_ be to get people to come to Church. The goal should be to get people to come to Jesus.
Adam (#2),
While I don’t think you would get much argument in stating this as a purpose (or goal) of the Church, you are on shakier ground in arguing it is the purpose of the church.
The presentation (course lecture, actually) at the following link is a fair and balanced presentation on the subject of the purpose of the church and does not push a particular agenda:
http://bible.org/seriespage/session-4-purpose-church-what-church-supposed-be-doing
(Disclaimer: I have taken a couple of courses through The Theology Program which is the focal point of Michael Patton’s Reclaiming the Mind Ministries)
Warren:
With all of the courses you have taken perhaps you could expound on your statement “you are on shakier ground in arguing it is the purpose of the church”.
If the purpose of the church isn’t to bring people to Jesus, then what is it’s purpose.
I’m sorry, perhaps I’m missing something in your response to Adam #2 and need to have it pointed out.
Thanks,
Gerry (#4), I really haven’t taken many courses and what little I have learned is just scratching the surface. The following is taken from the course notes for the lecture I linked in #2:
The Church has several purposes that can all be well substantiated from Scripture. Wayne Grudem, who is the author of a well known Systematic Theology, put it this way:
• Ministry to God: Worship
• Ministry to Believers: Nurture
• Ministry to the World: Evangelism
Adam pointed out the last element, but there is more to the Church than that.
Sorry Warren, I think I was unclear. I was not trying to claim that the Church should do nothing but evangelism, and should ignore everything else.
If the foremost goal of the Church were to be to get people to attend church, this is where we can get led astray with concern for things like “political breadth” as Ben Wilson says. The Church should not be trying to win a popularity contest.
On the other hand, if the foremost goal of the Church is to get people to accept salvation from their sins through Jesus Christ, then everything else you mention should naturally fall into place from there, although I probably couldn’t have enumerated those additional purposes so well.
Warren:
Thanks so much for your most informative response.
I am not entering into this discussion to ‘argue’ but more to uphold the meaning of taking the Gospel to the corners of the World.
We, the people are the Church, are we not?
IF we bring people to Christ Jesus and IF their hearts are truly filled with the love of Christ Jesus, then all of the other listed purposes will be fulfilled, will they not?
I think that all of the items listed in your response #5 are simply the result of the Church bringing people to Christ. The people of the Church in the evangelizing countries of the world are not all to concerned about side effects, just about telling others of the love of Jesus.
What is meant by “Church attendance levels have been broadly stable for the last decade”?
Does it mean that some Parishes are declining while others are increasing, with the overall net effect being “broadly stable”? If so, than which Parishes are declining, and why? Also, which Parishing are growing, and why?
I suspect that part of the answer is the Parishes that are drifting away from the Holy Word of God are the deliners, and the Parishes that are sticking with the Holy Word of God are the growers.
Gerry (#7), you bring up an interesting point. Are individual believers synonymous with the church or does Scripture draw a distinction? Is the purpose/mission of individual believers synonymous with the purpose/mission of the church? Can the church do things that the individual believer cannot (e.g., corporate worship, equipping of the saints, allowing for the exercise of certain spiritual gifts, etc.)? Can the individual believer do certain things that the church cannot (e.g., personal evangelism, showing of neighbourly love in a personal way, exercising of other spiritual gifts such as hospitality, etc.). Interesting questions to which I don’t have all the answers.
Adam (#6), sorry for jumping on you as quickly as I did. What you say makes sense.
Hi Warren:
In “Born Again Christian” circles, it is always taught that the people ARE the Church. Does Paul not tell us that each one of us is part of the ‘body’? I am not sure that he is saying that the Church is a building full of people who share the common belief of Jesus Christ. The Church, be it one or a dozen or 100′s or 1000′s of believers has only one purpose (in my thinking) and that is to draw people to Jesus Christ and the Holy Trinity.
Gosh, maybe this is picking at straws. Is it? Does make for good food for thought though.
Gerry (#10), I agree that “people are the church” and that we are part of the body of Christ. Does it follow, however, that the purpose of an individual part of the body is the same as the purpose of the whole body (1 Cor 12)? I agree that it is good food for thought.
Warren:
I suppose if we want to break down the original category of the Church’s purpose being to spread the Good News and Bring people to Christ, the we can make all kinds of sub-categories. However, no matter what we do, the original and I submit the present purpose of the Church is to being people to Christ Jesus.
Warren your #5 – I question points 2,4,5 & 8. I would appreciate Scriptural reference to these points.
Stuck (#13), see the link in #3.
Stuck (#13), see also session four (or maybe the whole workbook):
http://ecclesiologyandeschatology.reclaimingthemind.org/content/files/TTP/EE/Ecclesiology_&_Eschatology_Workbook_Jul_2006.pdf
The presentation linked in #3 and the workbook linked above go together.
Thanks Warren I’ll get back to you!