Read it all on page 3 here
God
Allah Achbar! (The sound we wake up to in the Middle East.) God is great. Actually ‘great’ in English does not convey the true meaning, as much as the superlative, God is the greatest. It really means that God is awesome, majestic.God is one, the only one. (Christians may use metaphors as Father, Son and Spirit, but we still believe God is one.)
God is a person, not a thing.
God’s character is infinitely good and kind. He is so merciful that he has already forgiven us, even before we ask him to.
Human beings
We are created in the image of God. We share his personhood. His spirit lives in us.However, we have fallen far short from our potential. (Christians call this the Fall. It means that in spite of our having his spirit in us, we are as unlike God as day is to night. We do the things we know we should not do, and we do not do the things we know we should, and we have messed up in a big way. Left on our own we can never be reconciled with such an awesome and majestic God.)
But God has done what we could not, nor can, nor will ever be able to do for ourselves; he has made the reconciliation himself. He loves us so much that in spite of our messing up he has restored us to our former state. (To appreciate this we need eyes of faith, not just our natural eyes, for with our natural eyes there is nothing to distinguish us from the animal kingdom, of which we are a part.)
This life is so short, compared with the history of this planet, but we believe that when we die we shall go to be with God, to see him face to face. He will certainly judge us for our failings in this life, but his love will never, ever, be diminished.
How then should we respond to what God has done for us?
We should first surrender ourselves to God; our lives and everything we think we own (it is actually his anyway.) We must become his servants, remembering that his service is perfect freedom.We should take responsibility for our own actions, and not put the blame for them on our circumstances or other people. We should tell God where we have failed him.
If we have hurt our fellow humans we should tell them too, and try to make amends.
We should love them, acknowledging them to be brothers and sisters, because God loves them too.
If we see their failure we should never judge them. That is God’s prerogative, not ours. We should instead be catalysts to restore them to their full potential. God does the work of restoration, not us, but he may use us in the process.
Our love must, however, be tough. (This is where I have real problems as a pacifist. What caliber gun would Jesus use? was the title of a cartoon in the New York Times that set me thinking.)
[...]
As a Christian I do believe that God was in Jesus, a man born in a table who died on a cross, and that through him, somehow, the world has been reconciled to God. However, I also believe that Christians err if they think themselves to be the only beneficiaries of God’s love. It is because so many Christians do think this that I have deliberately left his name from the “creed.” He did teach that religion was not the way to God; he was. But he was not a self assertive man. God gave his stamp of approval on his ministry by raising him from the dead. But let us not for ever be arguing over the means by which God has reconciled us to himself, but rejoice in the fact that he has. It is a fait accompli. Khelas!
Is this too radical? Too inclusive? Perhaps it should change the way we take the Gospel to foreign lands. Any idea as this may be too gushy for Evangelicals, as it was once for me when I was an Evangelical. But it’s where I believe I now stand. I could, though, be dead wrong, and Evangelicals would say dead, as I once would have said of someone who produced such a statement. However, that was before the Same- Sex debate in the Anglican Church. I now believe that the God whom we worship is by far greater than the God of the Bible.
My highlighting in the last sentence – for the obvious reason.
Note to the author of the posted article:
When Jesus says (Matt. 26:41), ‘The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak’, he is telling Peter and all of us that our so-called human potential (aka power) is zip.
Now contrast this ‘human potential’ with the promise of Jesus from the Book of Acts 1:8:
“But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”ESV
The power we have as Christians is the Holy Spirit come upon us from heaven, and to what purpose? So that we would be witnesses to the ends of the earth of the crucified and risen Lord Jesus.
Not to some sort of feel-good human potential.
The author makes it clear in his introduction that he’s taking a Universalist position, so it shouldn’t be surprising that he ends up abandoning Scripture, which is anything but Universalist.
Those words make me feel ill. I can’t read them without thinking of Daniel Pearl, or 9/11.
“That is about the most arrogant statement I have read in a while.” said my wife.
I see the once half decent Niagara Anglican is again down to eight pages. Does this mean the coffers are getting dry and the publicity stunt of having a big newspaper under the “progressive” management of Chris Grabic is suffering ? Having your main connection with the pew potatoes looking third rate must be a blow to management and the lackeys of Bird’s crumbling empire.
I find the way Jesus is diminished in this very disturbing.
Muriel – #6 – take a look at Anglican Mainstream – and what the Glaswegians are doing to Him –
http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/
As a Christian I do believe that God was in Jesus, a man born in a stable who died on a cross, and that through him, somehow, the world has also to believe that Christians err if they think themselves to be the only beneficiaries of Gods love. It is because so many Christians do think this that I have deliberately left his name from the creed. He did teach that religion was not the way to God; he was. But he was not a self assertive man. God gave his stamp of approval on his ministry by raising him from the dead. But let us not for ever be arguing over the means by which God has reconciled us to himself, but rejoice in the fact that he has. It is a fait accompli. Khelas!
I now believe that the God whom we worship is by far greater than the God of the Bible.
The writer of this article (Dr. Micheal Burslem), the last time I commented on him was attributed to being one who attempts to spread confusion. This time, I can fully state that he is nothing other than an apostate. This guy’s writing is typical or should I say indicative of the attitude we have seen coming out of Niagara (Diocese) since before micheal Bird arrived. The hierarchy of the diocese of niagara and of the ACoC cannot claim to be anything other that apostasy exemplified.
I not even sure that our WebAdmins should even be putting this garbage on the site anymore. Perhaps it is time to move on totally to the positive things within ACNA and the true Communion to which it belongs, The Christian Church throughout the world.
We do not need to be printing the junk that promotes Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam or any other false religions.
Sorry. In the foregoing #8, I had highlighted one line that Burslem wrote, “God gave his stamp of approval on his ministry by raising him from the dead.” and then promptly forgot to comment on it!
For the info of Burslem, God put his stamp of approval on Jesus Christ long before this happened and long before He was even born as a Human being. Christ was approved before the earth was formed and millions of years before some guy named allah was born. allah is not coming back. the gods of the hindus and buddhists are not coming back. The false gods are not coming back and are not mentioned in the Holy Bible.
Burslem is a liar and is representing the king of all the liars and nothing else.
Allah is the Arabic language word for God. Arabic speaking Christians use it too. I think you meant Mohammed, Gerry.
I totally agree with Gerry #8 when he said:
“I’m not even sure that our WebAdmins should even be putting this garbage on the site anymore. Perhaps it is time to move on totally to the positive things within ACNA and the true Communion to which it belongs, The Christian Church throughout the world.”
While I and perhaps others may get some perverse joy in seeing how far the ACoC has fallen, I don’t think that these kinds of articles complement the Christian mission of the readers of this blog. Those “orthodox” who have already left the ACoC know full well why their departure was necessary. Those “orthodox” still resident within in the ACoC have also been inundated with numerous examples of the heresy and false teaching which now runs rampant in the ACoC and they have chosen either to stay and fight them, to live with them, or they just don’t care one way or the other. I seriously doubt that articles like this one will lead them to change their situation in the least. So, rather than continually looking back on Sodom, perhaps in future, we should be looking ahead to how the renewal of Christ’s Church is unfolding and give thanks to God that he has blessed us to be a part of it.
Please be aware that harsh, offensive and insulting words do not help inter-faith relations. They expose Christians in Muslim countries to persecution and hinder mission work. One has to live side-by-side with moderate Muslims to really understand.
Thank you, Kate. Abraham is the father of both Isaac and Ishmael. Muslims also accept Mary as the mother of Jesus and accept Him as a prophet, which is more than some Christians believe! Christians strong in our faith will not be swayed by other religions.
Siena – Christians have always been exposed to persecution, even by other christians. Not because of words or cartoons or books but because of fear. This translates into hate, bigotry, jealousy, and ignorance. Moderate Muslims by definition do not fit into this category. Unless their faith calls them to believe that all non Muslems are infidels and must be put to death, in which case, if this is true than the so-called Moderate Muslem is questionable.
In the context of the last two comments, I think that “nominal” would be a better choice of word than “moderate”. What would a “moderate” Christian be? One who only believes in and acts upon part of God’s Word?
Kate:
You are correct of course…I meant Mohammed. As for the rest of my comments, most were directed at Michael Burslem. In the rest I did not attempt to pick out any one particular religion, but if the shoes fit,lk then they should be worn.
Again, I reiterate, anything that is along these lines should not even be being put on this website. Any writings from the pen of Michael Burslem should remain on the other junk papers but not this one. he writes garbage.
I respectfully disagree with you all. There is no schadenfreude involved. We want to draw attention to what is going on in the Canadian Anglican world, not just what is happening in the ACNA.
Kate, I’m with you; I think the blog admins maintain a reasonable balance for a blog of this type. There is also a practical aspect that many “positive” blog entries seem to generate few, if any, comments – not a formula for success in the blogoshere. Maybe the time will come when there will no longer be a need for this blog, but I don’t think we are there yet.
P.S. Thank you for expanding my vocabulary with “schadenfreude” (I had to look up the word).
Bitte schön!
#14 Warren
I disagree and stand on the use of the term moderate. It’s near opposite is radical. As opposed to your choice of nominal which refers to being a token, such as those Christians who attend Church once a year say, or identify themselves as Christian but don’t worship at all.
Having witnessed the world-wide musim response to the Norwegian cartoon some years back and also calls from the Muslim world for the deaths of authors, world leaders, correspondants etc., I do question the term as applied to Islam.
#3 kate – I’m curious how you would feel about a couple of well placed Battle field nukes placed between our troops and entry points for Taliban, El Quida, on the Pakistani Border.
#20 I think that would be just as wrong as the bombing of the Twin Towers was.
First, Kate – You guys are the ones who administer therefore we bow to your way even in disagreement……thanks for all that you do on this site.
second:
“12 siena
Please be aware that harsh, offensive and insulting words do not help inter-faith relations. They expose Christians in Muslim countries to persecution and hinder mission work. One has to live side-by-side with moderate Muslims to really understand.
Thank you, Kate. Abraham is the father of both Isaac and Ishmael. Muslims also accept Mary as the mother of Jesus and accept Him as a prophet, which is more than some Christians believe! Christians strong in our faith will not be swayed by other religions.
There is just a slight challenge here siena for those of the Christian Faith who are members of a particular church that (a) does not teach very much about the Holy Bible (b) teaches only liturgy and not Christianity (c) adheres to strict rules of “thou shalt not” allow certain ‘Gifts’ of the Holy Spirit to enter into your faith.
These particular ‘churches’ do nothing to help new and old christians to be strong and hence they are weakened to the point that they will look at and be swayed by nearly any religion or new “social justice” idea that comes along that will sway them out of the Christian Faith…….remind you of any ‘particular’ church?
These points are signifigant in the formation of new churches and in our doctrine, would you agree?
Stuck (#19), I’m no expert on Islam, but had opportunity to listen to a very interesting presentation from an ex-Islamic scholar who has converted to Christianity. Based on his descriptions, I stick to my assertion that the “moderate” muslim you describe in #13 would be better described as a “nominal” adherent of Islam.
12 Siena; could you please help me to understand what you mean by “Inter-faith relations”?
13 Kate; If you had the opportunity to be-head the persons responsible for the atrocities you mentioned in #3, would you do it? What if you could do this before the atrocities happened, would your answer be different.
Very often, I see that to most Canadian Christians all Muslims are the “other”. This “other” is totally foreign and often dreaded and demonized.
For over twenty-five years, I’ve worked in high-tech in Ottawa. Many of my co-workers have been these moderate Muslims that Warren doesn’t seem to believe in. I mean Muslims who go to the mosque on Friday, observe Ramadan, don’t eat pork. And work alongside their co-workers, who include Hindus, Jews, Christians, and the vast majority of not-very-religious Canadians.
I see Christians who characterize every single adherent of one of the world’s large religions as identical to the most raving example they can point at. You know how offended you are when someone hangs Jerry Falwell’s excesses around your neck — why do you do that to others? They’re your neighbors.
Remember that story about the Samaritan? Luke 10:25-37. Read it. Reflect on it. Remember who told it. What is your duty to your neighbor? Who is your neighbor?
Henry, I think you are reading things into the comments that weren’t there. Maybe Warren could post a link to the works of the scholar he is talking about?
Henry (#25), I don’t disagree that many (perhaps most) Muslims are as you say. You misread what I really said.
Henry (#25), since I appear to have already offended you (not intentionally), how about this analogy. I would submit that their are many Anglicans (and many from evangelical denominations as well) who never miss a church service, are involved in every committee and activity, and tithe faithfully. To their neighbours they appear to be moderate, well-behaved Christians who are quietly devoted to their faith. The reality, however, is that they don’t really believe everything in God’s Word and would never submit themselves to the true demands and sacrifices of being a follower of Christ. I would apply the word “nominal” to such people (and I don’t claim that I don’t have weaknesses in this regard either).
Kate (#26), I suspect I can find the talk I referred to, but it will have to wait till I get home. It isn’t appreciated by others when you tie up the computer in the hotel lobby for extended periods of time.
If you could remind me of the man’s name, I could find it. I remember reading something very similar, I just can’t remember the author’s name.
Not offended particularly, although I do have a hot button for people who are terribly worried about “the muslims” and have never actually exchanged any words with one.
I remember in the week after September 11, 2001 being one of several hundred people who visited the Ottawa Central Mosque in an act of inter-faith support. (There were Jews, pagans, Mormons, Hindus, and Sikhs, at least, there.) I also remember that on September 15, 2001 some probable “nominal Christian” fire-bombed the Hindu Samaj temple in Hamilton in “revenge”. Still unsolved, as far as I can google. There were other incidents.
One needs to talk cautiously in this area; you never know just when a Reginald FitzUrse is in the congregation.
Both of these incidents qualify as “inter-faith” relations in my world-view.
#22 I agree (but then I’m in a church standing biblically firm in the ACoC).
#24 In a very poor village, Muslims have given food and shelter to Christians and vice-versa. 3 different faiths live and study together in peace. All worship separately but they open their dispensaries to each other in a town.
Thank you Henry for your comments.
#28 The Christian journey is a life-long one.
#31 All well and good, but that is not really the point. Islam and Christianity cannot both be true – they contradict each other in their basic creeds. Islam teaches that Jesus was a prophet but not the son of God, and that it was Judas Iscariot who was crucified on the cross, and not Jesus. To begin a supposedly Christian creed with Allah Achbar! implies that they can both be true, and is simply one more indication of the ACoC’s slide into a faith that isn’t Christian.
Siena, Examples of compassion abound in our history, it is a called upon neccessity of our Lord. It should be the mark of all Christians. We exist because of Love and we exist to Love. However the only element that allows this in totality is Our Lord Jesus. To have inter-faith “RELATIONSHIP” (please notice the emphases) requires either an honest approach or a politically correct one. The former demands that we speak to the truth of John 3:16, the latter is a lie that weakens our faith and opens doors to the prince of this world. This is similar to denominations who have compromised the truth in order that they might be more pallatable to the culture they serve. In the end this results in service without ministry.
I speak to you not for arguments sake but because there are very powerful men and machinations in existance that would see a single world religion comprising of all creeds working in harmony under a central authority. This by necessity will demand compromises that will not serve our God but will serve a one world government. Think you that I am a conspiracy “nut”? all I can say to that, is this information is available in two publications – Macleans magazine and Holy Scripture.
I pray now that you and I, Henry and so many others that are my brothers and sisters can put some distance in our perspective to facilitate the drawing near by faith to Him who is the truth, until that great and dreadful day of the Lord in whose Name I speak.
Even so – Come Lord Jesus!
“I also remember that on September 15, 2001 some probable “nominal Christian” fire-bombed the Hindu Samaj temple in Hamilton in “revenge”.
This statement is itself incendiary. By your own admission this incident is still unsolved, so to use the word “Christian” — even with the weasel-word “nominal” — is simply irresponsible.
I’m reminded of the time a local synagogue was vandalized, and the news media openly speculated that the crime was committed by “Christians” who had been incited to rage by Mel Gibson’s “The Passion of the Christ” which was then in theatres. In fact, subsequent investigation proved the perpetrators were a couple of teenage punks. I don’t recall anyone apologizing to the “Christian community” for that one.
Kate (#29), I don’t recall the name. What I do recall is that the gentleman was interviewed on the White Horse Inn and it was broadcast in two parts in the fall of 2007. I will look things up when I get home because I think the interview is well worth a listen for those interested in the dynamic between Islam and Christianity.
Well, it appears to be the October 1, 2006 broadcast, but I can’t find an actual audio link. The commentary and additional reading link is here:
http://www.whitehorseinn.org/broadcast-archive/whi-program-resources-from-2006.html
Kate (#36), wow, you found it (and I didn’t even get the year right)! I guess they don’t keep the audio files indefinitely. I still have it on iTunes, though.
Kate, I agree that a Christian creed should not have “Allah akhbar” in it and I react strongly against any change to the 3 creeds. I’m aware of the syncretism that abounds. I’ve lived in different countries amongst many religions and was just sharing in that context as I’ve seen how culturally insensitive but well-meaning missionaries can cause unintended harm to a community. It becomes a stumbling block and has the opposite effect. The media picks up on it and the damage is done. Stuck, you misunderstand me – I do not need to be convinced that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
#34 – so, I’d be better to deny the possibility that the person responsible would self-idenitfy as part of the same faith as me? I should automatically push all blame to the “other”?
Like siena, I must proclaim that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
#38 – Siena do I take it than that you agree that inter-faith relationship is redundant?
#’s 34, 39
The blame game is a vainly invented circumstance to sell newspapers, win arguments, and further agendas. Henry if your proclamation be true – and it is, blame has no role to play. Ellie the persecution of Jesus and His followers continues, ideally our response can only be prayerful forgiveness.
#41 – good point. I’m not talking blame in the classic sense so much as accepting that our own community includes both “wheat and tares”.
Of course it does. Nobody here is saying that our own community doesn’t include both wheat and tares. However, the definition of what is wheat and what is tare is very different in Islam and Christianity. I don’t believe that the Allah of Islam and the God I worship on Sunday morning are the same.
“I don’t believe that the Allah of Islam and the God I worship on Sunday morning are the same.”
Kate; The God of Islam, Judism, and Christianity are the same. It is the unfortunate circumstance for Jews and Muslims to be blind to the completeness that the followers of Christ have been graced by faith to see. The upside is of course that every knee shall bow, every tongue confess… eventually.
Stuck (#44),
There are many who would disagree (not that that would bother you).
Stuck, they aren’t. Islam teaches that Jesus was not the son of God, and that Judas died on the cross, not Jesus. Islam also teaches that both good and evil are the will of Allah – that he causes both good and evil to happen. How can that really be the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Jesus?
Kate and Warren
Genesis 21:17-18
17 And God heard the voice of the lad. Then the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said to her, “What ails you, Hagar? Fear not, for God has heard the voice of the lad where he is. 18 Arise, lift up the lad and hold him with your hand, for I will make him a great nation.”
19 Then God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water. And she went and filled the skin with water, and gave the lad a drink. 20 So God was with the lad; and he grew and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. 21 He dwelt in the Wilderness of Paran; and his mother took a wife for him from the land of Egypt.
Not sure what your point is, Stuck. Even in the Genesis stories, the Bible and Islam contradict each other. Islam teaches that it was Ishmael who was almost sacrificed by his father. The teachings of Islam and Christianity are radically different, and cannot both be true. God is perfect, how can he teach two contradictory things?
Stuck (#48), not relevant.
Stuck, I know it probably won’t change your mind, but I recommend that you listen to the two mp3 files that you can access on this site:
http://reformedevangelist.com/?tag=sam-solomon
It is the interview I referred to in #23 with Sam Solomon – an expert in Shari’ah Law who converted to Christianity.