Off topic, I know, but the ELCA Lutherans are going the same way as the established Anglican churches in N America.
Funnily enough, as all this is going on a twister rips off the cross from the steeple of the Central Lutheran Church, just next door to the ELCA assembly. I’m just sayin’…..
It should be noted this refers to the Evangelical Lutheran Church – a misnomer to say the least – but in no way reflects the position of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod or Lutheran Church Canada. Both are fully committed to orthodoxy and can only be described as an example for the Christian Church in maintaining and upholding the faith. Would that the ACoC would follow in the footsteps of Lutheran Church Canada.
Thanks for pointing this distinction out, Frank. I notice that the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Canada is, according to its website, in full communion with the ACoC.
I added a bit of clarity to the post, thanks.
You know, this reminds me of the lightning strike on York Mister that destroyed the South Transept on July 9, 1984, three days after the very liberal David Jenkins was consecrated there as bishop of Durham…
…er, that was supposed to read York Minster.
#4,
Ah yes, the imposter; that’ll learn him.
I’ve had a crash refresher course in Lutheranism since recently getting involved with an LCC member (Lutheran Church – Canada).
Today she found the ELCA’s tornado-inverted cross apt because her conservative Lutheran branch is quite strict about sex and gender issues. This week’s ELCA bunch, on the other hand, are aligned with a similar Canadian version called ELCIC who are all in bed with the tax-supported Lutheran state churches of Germany and Scandinavia.
I’ve read online speculation at Stand Firm that ELCA’s decision this week might prompt a Lutheran crisis comparable to what’s happening in the US Episcopal Church. That strikes me as unlikely because orthodox Lutherans are already theologically aligned locally, nationally, and internationally. There won’t be whole Lutheran dioceses breaking away. No need. Lutheran constitutions in North America generally allow for individual congregations to affiliate with one synod or another by parish vote. There might be some legal wrangling over grandfathered congregations from a predecessor body (LCA) which must obtain permission from regional synod to disaffiliate from ELCA, but there’s also a pious old NA Lutheran tradition called “peaceful release.”
That seems to involve negotiating practical issues like mortgage, pension, and insurance transfers from the administration of one Lutheran synod to another. It can still get nasty, but Lutheran congregations on this continent are relatively free agents compared to Anglican/Episcopal parishes.
So there won’t be any epic Lutheran court battles over this and all the evangelical international Lutheran conferences will be moderated by eurolutheraners anyway (who’ve been openly ordaining gay clergy and marrying same-sex couples for years).
In terms of general membership, both ELCA and LCMS reported membership declines in 2004/2005. However, ELCA (lib Lutheran) membership fell at almost double the rate: down 1.62% compared to 0.9% decline for LCMS (orthodox Lutheran). It will be interesting to see what impact ELCA’s decision has upon those relative rates of decline over the next few years.
Hey all you Lutherin Orthodox thinkers ……… say really slow
c o m m o n c a u s e …. than remember Jesus’s prayer to our Father “That the all may be one”
God Bless you
There’s an ECLA church a couple of blocks from where I live and they have the same statement on their website.
I should have said “ELCA”.
Another reference to the ELCA stolen from another blog I enjoy:
Here is the link from the original quote:
http://www.elca.org/Growing-In-Faith/Ministry/Youth-Ministry/Youth-Gathering/Day-5.aspx
Hmmm … That guy ‘celebrating’ the “feast of inclusive love” has the most monotonous voice– whatever he says, all I hear is “blah, blah, blah”!
Hi Stuck,
The Lutherans have an established procedure for parishes moving from one synod to another (they don’t mean the same thing by synod as we do – if ANiC were Lutheran we’d be a new synod). They have a history of extending Christian charity to parishes that want to move synods, including negotiation (imagine that) of money issues. I can’t see any of them joining Common Cause, as they have a Lutheran alternative already set up.
Am I right, Noli?
Kate, I don’t want to be misunderstood here and this is not a personal attack. your stream#13 in reference to my stream #8 misses the point entirely. Our Lord’s prayer as quoted in #8 is about Christ’s desire for His Church, which WILL BECOME one sooner or later. The sooner we understand THAT, the sooner we can truly see the importance of unity.
Oh, ok. Blame seriously nasty headcold for my misunderstanding. Brain fogged, must consume more Neo Citron….
#13 Kate wrote:
“I can’t see any of them joining Common Cause, as they have a Lutheran alternative already set up. Am I right, Noli?
Probably, Kate. Many Lutherans abandoned the historic episcopate in reformation times because they held the gospel more dear, so those today would never sign on to Element #4 of the Common Cause statement: “We confess the godly historic Episcopate as an inherent part of the apostolic faith and practice, and therefore as integral to the fullness and unity of the Body of Christ.”
Also, Elements #6 and #7 uphold the BCP and 39 Articles, both of which contain Calvinistic theology at odds with the Lutheran confessions.
And yes, there are already conservative Lutheran alternatives in the States: the long standing Missouri and Wisconsin Lutheran synods which both have many congregations all across America and, between them, 1/3 of US Lutheran members.
Because there are and pretty much always have been “human” elements of contradiction, speculative and real differences across the huge width and breadth of the christian expression, this should not detract from the purity, beauty, and perfection that is the destiny of the Church. The fact that recently we are seeing a new kind of difference that extends beyond human sensibilty and into direct contradiction of both scripture and 20 centuries of a loose knit and sometimes cavalier togetherness with the basics of Christian thought, should have us looking far more seriously at what our part in the Church should be. I think I’m beginning to repeat myself “#14″ Is it wrong to be driven by a single theme?
Kate -get better- I mean with the Head Cold
sorry about the uneducated sentence structure.