From the Los Angeles Times:
L.A. Episcopal leaders nominate 2 openly gay, lesbian priests as bishops.
Episcopal Church leaders in Los Angeles today nominated an openly gay priest and an openly lesbian priest as bishops, becoming one of the first dioceses in the national church to test a controversial new policy that lifted a de facto ban on gays and lesbians in the ordained hierarchy.
The nominations of the Rev. John L. Kirkley of San Francisco and the Rev. Canon Mary Douglas Glasspool of a Baltimore-based diocese are likely to further inflame theological conservatives in the U.S. church and their global partners in the Anglican Communion, who have repeatedly warned about the repercussions of such action.
The two are among six nominees who will face election for two assistant bishop posts at the diocese’s annual December convention in Riverside.
The Diocese of Los Angeles, which represents 70,000 Episcopalians in six counties, is widely regarded as one of the most liberal in the U.S. church of 2.1 million members. Its bishop, the Rt. Rev. J. Jon Bruno, is an outspoken advocate of gays rights in the church.
“I affirm each and every one of these candidates and am pleased at the wide diversity they offer this diocese,” Bruno said in a statement.
The correct terminology for the so-called bishop and his associates – that would include the Diocese – is apostates, NOT liberals. As I have stated many times in the past we can no longer use the polite term as it does not express the true state of the Episcopal Church of the USA which has really lost any credibility to be called Christian. How can we possibly be concerned with unity when we have these destroyers in the church with no action whatever to bring them to account.
And Minnesota having failed the confirmation of the Buddhist is including one gay female priest in its next list of candidates. The moritortia has been dead in the water since ink met paper, its been all nudge-nudge, wink-wink since day one. One saving grace is that they believe in the one true all powerful God. They do ? Don’t they?
Hello Steve- Oh they believe all right! So does loosafur, the difference is that o’l slewfoot is smart enough to be scared constipated.
Frank our job is not to bring “them” to account. But through Love only (it is our only tool) and our concern for unity to perchance bring them to repentence.
For #4
It may not be our job to bring them to account, but it is definitely the responsibility of those persons who claim to be bishops and other clergy to do so and that is my point. Love can be interpreted in many ways but what is needed in the church is some tough love even if that means removing persons from their clerical positions. As it is we have wolves in sheep’s clothing doing whatever they wish with no accountability.
Stuck (#4), can you provide any biblical reason why false teachers, false prophets and the like should not be brought to account? Or is it the failure to call leaders to account that has brought the ACoC and TEC to wrack and ruin. Do you think you would be showing love to your children if you turned a blind eye to their wrong doings rather than calling them to account? If one child punched the other in the nose for no valid reason and you did not call the puncher to account, would you be showing love to the punchee? I’m glad my parents didn’t show me that kind of “love”.
Stuck in TO – I see you still cannot spell natas correctly but I do understand your reasoning on this site.
I’m sorry, but in my abrupt opinion there is only a .000000000001% chance that these apostates and their cronies will ever confess, repent and turn from their wicked ways……. Love them if you want, but sure don’t have to like or confer with them in attempts to turn them. They aren’t going to turn!!!. These people are so sold out to the Hollywood Syndrome, the vickygene robinson syndrome and the frank hiltz, ingham and bird syndromes and to the susan bird syndromes that they will not change direction…..The blind following the blind.
Scriptures tell us that there are those who will never see the “Way” and will refuse to take such direction. These are those.
Blessings,
Gerry
#7 Gerry: When you allow a .000000000001% chance for the apostates, you are too optimistic. You’d be better to say their chances are zero, like that of a camel going through the eye of a needle, for example.
But then, what kind of chance did any of us have? We, who have been given the grace of repentance, forgiveness and rebirth in our Lord Jesus Christ, will (if honest thought is applied) admit that we contributed nothing to the story of our salvation except our devastating sin. Remembering this, we–in deep humility–must pray that these apostates will be saved from their impending destruction, in such a way as we were saved, through the merits of Jesus Christ our Saviour.
Jesus said: “With men [it is] impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.” Mark 10:27
#8 Irena:
thus the .000000000001% chance….room for miracles.
Thanks for your note…..you are, obviously totally correct.
In His Love,
Irena (#8),
When it comes to probabilities related to God, the answer depends on whether you ask an Arminian or a Calvinist. From my cursory study, the 39 Articles seem to show the influence of Calvin more than Arminius. Now I’ll crawl back in my hole.
To #5 & #7 Frank and Gerry, C’mon guys I know both of you know that the love we are called upon to give to all, including our enemies is not judgemental and has nothing to do with liking or disliking. I find what is being perpatrated personally distasteful, wrong, maddeningly misleading, and totally deniable to orthodox thinking. Their are miriad ways to describe the persons responsible, wrong being the simplest. to paraphrase; hate the perpetration love the perpetrator.
#6 Warren
colloquially – not my job, mon!
Biblically
John 3:16 –
Matthew 6:33-34 (King James Version)
33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
34Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Ephesians 5:27 (New King James Version)
27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.
This last quote has to do with the premise that the possibility exists that perhaps the actions and results of this unorthodox leadership is in fact IAW the will of God. If you can see this than you must conclude that any militant action against such, be it thought, word or deed, is not only futile but dare I say somewhat dangerous. BTW since you are back in your warren, Warren consider this “Many are called, few are chosen”
For Stuck in Toronto #11
The argument of not judging others is used very flippantly but Scripture does have an appropriate place for judgement. Further judgement does not imply hate as if that were the case how could we appropriately discipline our children. I would ask that you carefully consider the following directives in Scripture and read them in their context – the latter two definitely refers to the leaders of the church:-
John 7:24
James 3:1
1 Peter 4:17
P.S. I really sympathize with you being stuck in Toronto!! Hopefully you can find an escape route.
Stuck (#13), when viewed in context and in light of the totality of Scripture, I don’t think that any of the verses you quoted provide compelling support for your argument. That said, I believe strongly in the sovereignty of God and he may well be using those who stand against Him to purify His church. God used Nebuchadnezzar as a tool to bring punishment to the nation of Israel but, by your logic, Daniel and his friends should have eaten the King’s food and Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego should have bowed down before the golden image.
#13 Frank –
John 7:24 – There are two kinds of judgement one is followed by punishment, the other is a form of discernment it is the latter that Jesus speaks of.
James 3:1 -As I have tried to explain the un-orthodox who bring this calamity are not teaching but in fact are deceiving. of course those who will be judged “more strickly” are being judged by God. “Judgement is mine sayeth the Lord”
1 Peter 4:17- I think you need to read this again. The “time of judgement” does not refer to the unrighteous but to the “family of God” ie; the Church. But going back to verse 7 and onwards – this iz what I’m talkin about.
#14 Warren hughhh??? if I read you correctly you are saying that my logic indicates that we (the Orthodox) should in fact go along with the unothodox. Balderdash – please clarify.
BTW – gentlemen what is your interpretation of “SUFFICIENT UNTO THE DAY IS THE EVIL THEREOF”
Stuck (#15),
A plain reading of your words in #12 indicate that any “militant action” (even a thought) against the unorthodox leadership could be futile and even dangerous:
Is there any action that you would consider “non-militant” and thus not dangerous to the eternal soul of the person acting?
Warren 1. I believe any response to evil does two things diminishes the victory of Christ and secondly opens the “thin edge of the wedge.
2. In dealing with personal (in church) relationships admonishment IAW scripture is acceptable. Prayer sould alway be the number 1 response. Of course these two things are useless without the company of Love.
Irena
You quoted Mark 10:27. So how come you cannot picture God stuffing a camel through a needles eye?
Dear Stuck #18: I quoted the Mark passage to illustrate that with man it is impossible to be saved. Zero probability.
However, the passage also tells us that with God, nothing is impossible, even our salvation. Who needs to squeeze through the eye of a needle when we’ve been given Jesus Christ?