From the Journal:
The decision by the diocese of Niagara to offer same-sex blessings as of Sept. 1 is bound to create some tension among bishops, says Archbishop Fred Hiltz, primate of the Anglican Church of Canada.
Michael Bird, the diocesan bishop of Niagara, informed the Canadian house of bishops of his plan to offer same-sex blessings when it met last October. Subsequently, the house released a statement affirming a continued commitment to the moratorium on same sex blessings while recognizing the moratorium would be difficult for other dioceses to implement.
Archbishop Hiltz said his hope is that “in the spirit of that statement, we would remain in relationship with one another.”In an earlier interview, the bishop of Caledonia, Bill Anderson, said that he “cannot recognize the legitimacy of what Niagara is doing.” By ignoring calls for a moratorium on same-sex blessings from various bodies of the Anglican Communion, Niagara “has chosen to walk apart, and is therefore in a state of impaired communion,” he said.
Asked whether he thought that the diocese of Niagara’s decision contravened a General Synod resolution in 2007, Archbishop Hiltz said, “The General Synod said by resolution that dioceses don’t have the authority to exercise local option (on same-sex blessings). We know that, and yet we live in a church where we have diocesan synods, provincial synods, and we have particular pastoral contexts, which I think inform the way people think about this issue.” (That resolution declared that blessing rites for gay couples are “not in conflict” with core church doctrine but refused to allow dioceses to offer them.)
Archbishop Hiltz added that both the dioceses of Niagara and New Westminster, which first offered same-sex blessings in 2002, have included “a very big piece around pastoral care” and that this has been “a very important piece” in their discernment process.
He noted that these dioceses had dealt with the sexuality issue in successive synods and that “a majority vote has increased every time” a resolution came up asking that same-sex blessings be offered. “That’s one of the things that challenges us in Canada. As diverse as we are geographically, theologically, and culturally, we have to always be careful not to… lose sight of the local pastoral context.”
Archbishop Hiltz also acknowledged that Niagara’s decision would have an impact on the next General Synod meeting in Halifax in June 2010. But he said, “…I can get all anxious about it in terms of the impact that it’s going to have on the church and on the (Anglican) Communion, and then I can step back 10 years…and think about …the real impact when New Westminster went ahead. The life of the church went on, not without some tension and some fracture, I will grant you that. But the Gospel is still being proclaimed and embodied.”
Unbelievable!
As Archbishop Hiltz faces the future repercussions of Niagara’s apostasy, he can look back 10 years and be comforted by the fallout following New Westminster’s innovation. Let’s see: Bishops divided, the global Primates up in arms, Canterbury running in circles, churches and dioceses breaking away, congregations locked out of buildings, lawsuits galore and a fractured Christian church.
Some success story!
An understatement of truly biblical proportions
and
I always understood that discernment was to discover the will of God. In all honesty I believed they have chosen this path in advance and are now trying to justify it, right or not. I expect that KJS will give 2010 synod on how to thumb their nose at the Communion in general and the ABC in particular. Another factor is C of E recognizing ACNA. It won’t affect Synod decisions but it will establish that the ACoC has no claim to the moniker Anglican!
I wonder what he means by the Gospel? I guess the ACoC will be in the second lower tier of Anglicans if they go ahead – read what Rowan says about autonomous churches Fred. Two tiers – two religions, one true Gospel the other false.
For political reasons, that is to make a show of his (alleged) displeasure, Fred Hiltz, the Primate and so-called bishop, has made this comment. If he and the rest of the so-called bishops in the Canadian House of Bishops are now prepared to call the apostates to account the issues of division within what is left of the ACoC would be resolved. Tragically we have seen no sign whatever of any action and the Primate and his colleagues seem prepared to sit back and allow the church to sink into the mire of apostasy and irrelevance. The ACoC has virtually reached the point where it can no longer be called a Christian church as it has and is allowing the leadership to attempt to make God and His word subject to their approval.
I must admit I keep shaking my head every time the Primate opens his month.
It was Michael Peers the former Primate who started all this mess when he and the House of Bishops let Bishop Ingram get away with it 10 years ago
Lord Have Mercy
I totaly agree with No 4
Wendy I think you may have to go back a little further to Primate Scott and his “Radical Compassion”.
I haven’t been on this site in too long a time period, but will comment on this garbage ACOC and Fred Hiltz. Again Hiltz shows that he does not have the guts to speak out the Truth but again shows his weak leadership skills in siding with or “leading” the Anglican Church of Canada down the road to Hell.
One Bishop in all of Canada has the courage to speak out against Micheal Bird. Only One? Where are the rest of You? My goodness have you no courage at all? Where are the retired Bishops that I know are strong against what hiltz and Bird are doing and soon Chappel and others will follow along like little dogs with their tails wagging joyfully. Oh what bliss…..they are having their way… and they are taking so many innocent older people and young people with them in their twisted thinking. I’m sure KJS will be right there at 2010 synod holding Hiltz’s hands and helping to lead him right along where she has taken the Episopal Church in the USA. May God have mercy somehow on all of them.
Good for You Bishop Bill Anderson …..it is indeed unfortunate that you will soon find that you will have no choice except to lead a complete diocese out of the ACoC and hopefully you and your clergy will have the Discernment, Will and Wisdom to do just that!
And just where now are the 21 clergy in the diocese of toronto who sent their protest letter to Their ‘leadership’ who decided to go this route without even their own synod having a say in the matter. Where are they now…..will they have the courage to leave the ACoC or do they in the end also spell God “J O B”.
I can imagine other pearls of wisdom from Fred Hiltz: a torrential rainfall may make things “a trifle dampish”, winter is “likely be on the cool side”, and tossing a brick through your neighbour’s picture window “might possibly cause some animosity”.
re; Brother Gerry #7
The ACoC and brother Fred are not garbage. They, at best are following an agenda that they think will enhance christian life in the world. At worse they are caught up in the snare of the devil. In any event your emotional and angry diatribe speaks to the possibility that you too are caught in his snare. let me paraphrase scripture; If you have not Love your words are empty and meaningless. Gerry I don’t mean this as a personal attack but hopefully as an Eye opener.
Much Love in Christ
for #9 Stuck in Toronto
There is no doubt in my mind that the reference to “garbage” relates solely to the actions and/or comments made by Hiltz and others in the ACoC. There is also no doubt in my mind that they are indeed “caught in the snare of the devil” and it is worse than tragic when they try to simly wash away the issue without taking any action to deal with apostasy.
Stuck in Toronto #9 and Frank #10 Wirrell:
Stuck in TO – Frank is correct, my statement in #7 should have read “I haven’t been on this site in too long a time period, but will comment on this garbage ACOC and Fred Hiltz are putting out”: but you will notice that I refuse to address any of them as Bishop except Bishop Anderson of the Diocese of Caledonia since he is the only one worthy of that title in those so named.
You know, you don’t have to remain “stuck in Toronto” since there are already AniC churches close by that you can move over to and be freed from the repression and depression of the ACoC and such.
As I said earlier, I haven’t been on this site in a long time since before you arrived but I had earned my reputation as not being one to mince my words.
I can love Hiltz “et al” but that certainly does not mean I have to like them or what they are doing in leading what once was a good, Bible Believing Church to hell in a handbasket and taking innocent and uninformed people with them. You do not seem to be an innocent but perhaps are a tad uninformed…… My goodness “Stuck in Toronto” can you not understand what they are doing? As stated previously, you do not have to remain stuck….. If you do, then the funding that you give to your church is just helping them to move towards their goal. Why give to such an organization when you can surely see where they are going. Look south of the fourty-ninth parallel at the Episcopal Church and add five years or less on to the ACoC and that is where you will be if you remain with them. I do not declare myself a prophet by any means but I think you will maybe look back at my words and say….well, he was close!
In Christ Jesus,
Gerry
thank you Gerry – please call me Stuck. The action of Love (agape) is to want the very best for whom your love is directed. For instance if someone were to injure themselves you would not begin first aid by telling them how clumsy they were. Consequently the actions of brother Fred, his fellow Bishops, Priests and indeed those who wait within the ACoC including the sponsors of this blog may be wrong in your estimation but telling them so with vitroil and anger will not get them to listen. I am sure that you would much prefer to see repentance and return to original orthodox thinking by all members of our Anglican Church.
Archbishop Venables said in His address to the Fellowship of Confessing Anglicans initial conference in England and I quote “Orthodoxy is being outlawed” The AB of the Southern Cone is not given to exageration nor is He known for confused meaning. He did not say threatened nor diminished, He said what He said.
It is quite difficult to identify any single action by the principalities and powers that are bent on devouring us. But if one were to connect the dots backwards, from a clearly defined departure from “the Way”, than one might be able to identify other subtleties that may indeed have appeared quite innocent. For instance moving along a reverse time-line one might discover that current difficulties (call that A) could not have happened without item B taking place. Which could not have happened without item C. and so on. But what could take place after identifying such a time line one may be able to look at current affairs and see slightly ahead to item A+. So you say to me once again, why so cryptic stuck? If I were to say Item B or C or D etc. was at the hands of satan I might cause further disention, confusion, and even anger. But I’m sure I can hint about A+. There are certain powers dedicated to the creation of a one world government. These powers know that before the masses will go along there must be religious control, hence a single world religion of inclusivity (B+). (sound familiar) Now what do you think is the single greatest threat to this might be? If you said anything but orthodoxy you would be wrong. So you see Gerry your five year scenario may be surprising to you.
One last thing brother – what comes out of your mouth minced or otherwise is nothing compared to the love in you with Christ it is the only power you have.
TO Staff – regarding the assumption of the reqirement to moderate my comments – if censure is required I would appreciate a full and clear explanation. failure to do so will only create assumption which I am getting quite tired of.
#13. Your comment at #12 was held automatically by the moderation queue. The queue is set to hold some comments if particular key words are found. In your case it was the word satan. You were not specifically targeted, it’s just a blanket thing we have in place to help us catch comments that might require a second look.
I can endorse that. I have also had a similarly innocuous message in another discussion here held for the same reason.
Dear Stuck:
Well it appears that you are neither uninformed or innocent but are just as pointed as am I. This is good. I will remember the approximate timeline five years from now as should all. UNLESS Fred hiltz and his merry band change their hearts, which I sincerely doubt, the timeline will likely stay intact.
As for the statement about “There are certain powers dedicated to the creation of a one world government. These powers know that before the masses will go along there must be religious control, hence a single world religion of inclusivity (B+). (sound familiar) Now what do you think is the single greatest threat to this might be? If you said anything but orthodoxy you would be wrong. “ I’m not convinced that you are correct unless you are referring to another “orthodox” religion??? Is there such a thing?
If so, it’s centre used to be in Jerusalem also but now is not. There is the real world religious threat.
The threat to the Anglican Communion is in the ACoC and the Epicopal Church in the USA period.
Yes “stuck” I would prefer to see repentance from Fred HILTZ “ET AL” but unfortunately I find it difficult to imagine holding my breath for that long a time period. It is written that I should not judge those who are not in the “church” so perhaps that is the best way to leave this…….repent of my judgementalism and state that I do not have the right to judge them, period.
In Christ Jesus,
Gerry
Dear Staff thank you for calming my fear (which shouldn’t be there in the first place) and while I am at it thanks for your tireless work in maintaining an open channel of communication between us all. To Gordon as well!
Gerry, the threat to Orthodoxy in the Anglican Church Represented in North America by the ACNA is most certainly not TEC or ACoC. They perhaps are largely the reason for ACNA’s excistance. It’s (ACNA’s) stand against the direction of these two bodies (TEC&ACoC) that is galvanizing the communion and perhaps those such as TAC, to reunite under a single banner of scriptural Christ led orthodoxy. Not to forget Beautiful Metropolitan Jonah and His words. The other advantage is that those who are set against this movement will have less and less place to hide.
Praise God from whom all blessings flow…..
PS. If your holding your breath, your not praying and our Father needs those prayers, more now than ever. It is an area that I fall far to short.
Love in Christ
Stuck in Toronto:
I just made an entry and it failed to go through…Hope I can remember enough of it to rewrite.
I believe we are close to being on the same page and have started to breathe again… Will get back to prayer again rather than throwing out insults carved from the empty fodder that Fred and his crowd have been feeding the Church.
In Christ Jesus, Shalom,
Gerry
Gerry I believe the pages we have are identical. The pages we write (both of us) are sometimes cluttered with human frailty. I shall look for you on my journey. God Willing I’ll enjoy finding you.
P.S. also with you and your Spirit