Comments on: Anglican Journal

By: Peter

Peter — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 05:11:28 +0000

Probably

By: Kate

Kate — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:27:09 +0000

I meant that he isn’t bound by time as we are – so there is no contradiction between our having free will and His knowing what we will do with it. Are we perhaps using different words to say essentially the same thing? Not sure…

By: Peter

Peter — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:20:39 +0000

God is inside and outside of time, transcendent and imminent. Our descisions may be our own (though more complex than that), but they have no meaning outside the permissive will of God. In this complex interplay I look at it as going beyond God “allowing” us to do something, as if we could do anything independently, but not to a place where we are wooden pawns of a helpless predestined future.

The mystery for me is that God exists in the eternal NOW, both in our past, present and future. We have dealings in the present, for where else could we be, but all points are held together in a reality I cannot begin to comprehend. In that eternal NOW is the paradox reconciled.

Anyway, I could ramble on more, but I’m sure I’ll be getting in hot water, if not here then at work

By: David

David — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:19:41 +0000

Going back to Sean (#2),
don’t you think our energies would be much better spent praying for Abps Hiltz and Williams rather than mocking them?

The implication here is that it is only possible to have the energy to either mock or pray, but not both. Leaving aside whether mocking a wayward leader is a suitable vehicle through which to demonstrate his error (I think it is), the problem with the premise is that it asserts that prayer and action should not proceed simultaneously – something entirely foreign to the way Jesus taught us to behave.

By: Kate

Kate — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:30:35 +0000

#26 What if “praying for those who persecute you” is more about our own hearts than the hearts of the people we are praying for? It sounds like a self centered idea, but – I think that prayer is less about “getting God to do what we want” – as if – count those as queer quotes -and more about opening our hearts to relationship with the Father. I know that personally, if I am very angry (I’m talking the sinful kind of anger) with somebody, if I pray for him or her the anger dissipates.

By: Kate

Kate — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:22:51 +0000

What paradox, Peter? I don't think there is one. God is outside of time, and we have no way to understand that, being trapped in time, as it were. Just because He knows what he knows what we are going to do, doesn't mean He made the decision for us. Re #16:

On a related note, I suspect that some of us at least have been guilty of agreeing to pray for someone or something, but did not follow through because we ran out of time (for praying in more than a superficial manner at least)

Um, some of us have a problem with that at the best of times.

By: ML

ML — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:06:09 +0000

Calvin also believed in free will, as did Augustine before him

By: Peter

Peter — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:27:18 +0000

I’m a Calvinist Arminian Or to say I beleive in free will and predestination. Did I mention I like paradoxes?

The crux of the paradox is in our limited and finite understanding and nature. Simply put, we cannot grasp more than the faintest impression of the omniscient and omnipresent nature of God. In Him is the paradox reconciled.

I shall now stop going mystical on y’all.

By: ML

ML — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:07:31 +0000

Just checked my emails and in the AEC call to prayer for the 1st Friday of the month I ran across Garth Hunt’s article: “Praying with the Eyes of Jesus” – definitely has a bearing on our conversation.

By: Kate

Kate — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:56:07 +0000

but that means we are called to pray for their conversion even if that takes a “2 x 4 to the head”.

LOL. Hands up anybody who has never had that 2 x 4 to the head? thought not.