NOTE3: Bumped once again…..
NOTE2: Bumped again….
NOTE: Bumped from 14th April (when the story broke) to 20th April to keep this fresh – there’s a good debate going on here.
The Rev. Darrel Critch, Rector at St. Mary the Virgin on Craigmillar Avenue, St John’s, Newfoundland has been removed from his position by Bp. Pitman and Archdeacon Peddle.
This happened on the evening of Thursday the 10th of April at an emergency Vestry Meeting called by Bishop Pitman. Archdeacon Peddle showed up at the meeting and shortly thereafter Rev. Critch was relieved from his duties. Archdeacon Peddle has now been appointed administrator of St. Mary’s.
Why? Well what I have heard is that Rev. Critch made a stand on the Scriptures and removed a couple from choir who were living together in an immoral relationship. When the body of St. Mary’s became divided, he put out a survey basically saying “make up your mind, either you stand on God’s word over this or you don’t” and to have answers in by Friday 11th April to be tabulated. He had made it clear that if the congregation stood with him, he would stay…if not, he would leave the Parish. However preemptive action was taken prior to Friday…..
I understand that he was offered another Parish somewhere else and when he refused it, he was advised that perhaps he should take some time off on sick leave to which he said that he would not, since he was not sick. That is then when he was placed on administrative leave.
When the survey ballots were actually counted, approximately 350 votes were cast, and 94% were in support of the priest.
Sunday Morning, Archdeacon Peddle conducted his first service at St. Mary’s. When he announced that Rev. Critch had been placed on administrative leave, I understand that about 300 people got out of their seats and left the Church in protest.
I have multiple sources confirming these events (though some of the details are only from one source – thank you Gerry).
Note that Rev. Critch is not a member of the Essentials Network, though I believe he is a member of Essentials as the overall body.
I’m not entirely sure if this is an example of an orthodox priest getting dumped because he had the temerity to stand on his beliefs and make waves, or whether it is simply a ham-fisted attempt to exert and maintain control. Either way, it is hardly an edifying spectacle and I am sure that Rev. Critch would value your prayers.
LOL.
I wrote a reply but I think it got lost , so I will try again.
Greetings from England in the spring. The sun is shining and the birds are singing. The spring flowers are blooming and I have just bee walking in a beautiful English cottage garden. Are you all envious? We missed Rowan Williams by one week as he preached in our village church last week and my husband preached and celebrated there yesterday! I’m sorry we missed him as I had some questions for him, but maybe it was just as well as we have already been in trouble with a Bishop, hence not using my name! God bless everyone, and we will reconnect when we get home
why is it that st.marys has a priest who is well liked by the congreation and stands by his beliefs, he is removed from a congreation because of a bishop who excerts control like a hitler – is this why there are anglican branches springing up everywhere-i was looking forward to a great service at st.marys when i am home on vacation in june and as a former choir member and server and growing up in the old st.marys, think i will look at other possibilities
jim johnston
new york
Jim Johnston ~
It is good to see a post from outside Canada on this blog, welcome.
Jim, it seems that money and power run hand in hand in the Diocese of Eastern Newfoundland and Labrador. You might be giving yourself good advice in looking for somewhere else to worship when you come home on holidays. I’m sure that there will be a viable alternative available for you. There is still one decent Anglican Church in the City of St. John’s (at least one that has some good people and three wonderful ministers in it).
Newfoundland has it all Jim…..Music and Friends (Simani) and then it has Power and Money and protection of those who go against God’s Holy Word. (??????guess).
Amazing:
I asked OBSERVER to provide information many, many comments ago (around 144) and OBSERVER disappeared. Never came back, not as OBSERVER anyway.
But then, along comes “pale rider” spouting things similar to what OBSERVER had mentioned and I wondered, maybe they’re the same person….but, I don’t know ‘for sure’.
Then, I invite “Pale Rider” to email me direct, we’ll get together, have a coffee and discuss things and guess what…. you got it, no courage…… I guess that is indicative of this blogger’s code name ‘pale rider’……. how ingenious…. look what I found when I googled the words pale rider.
Revelation 6:8
“I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.” NIV
Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Cold or what?
Maybe ‘pale rider’ should read Zechariah 12:4
C’mon ‘pale rider’….. make life interesting…. for sure, with all your ‘insider information (Singleton)’, we could surely have an interesting chat.
gerryob at nl dot rogers dot com
Gerry:
The four horsemen do the work of the Lamb. My ride is almost complete. The Pale Rider may be closer on your heals then you think. Be careful what you wish for.
#256 – careful……………. when we hide behind a code name, we are sort of like a moose …… a moose figures if you can’t see his head that you can’t see his body, when indeed it may be in full sight.
I never ‘wished’ for anything, pale rider, I simply asked you to send me an email and we’d have a coffee and a chat……that’s not a wish in anyone’s book.
The offer for that coffee is still open………Let me know….I’ll recognize you when you meet me at Tim’s either in St. John’s, Mt. Pearl or in CBS……You choose it!!
’nuff said……..
#256 – Pale Rider………
To date, I have seen no person or persons make threats, either openly or veiled….. Your words in #256 can be taken as a veiled threat, so I do ask you to maintain some level of civility in these matters, whether you would want to or not. The offer of the coffee is still open to you without fear of reprisal or threats from me, either open or veiled….they are not there!
Pale Rider and Gerry: You are both getting a bit carried away. Please calm down or take it to private email. It’s easy enough to set up an anonymous gmail account. Thanks.
Gerry:
We both know we are not on the same page. You seem to feel that the ACC is no longer proclaims the Gospel, although you feel there is one church left in the Diocese which is proclaiming the Gospel (St. Thomas I guess). If I felt meeting with you could make a difference I would be glad to do so. But your opinion of Bishop Pitman is so of base and unchristian that for me it would be pointless. Have you ever sat down and spoke with the Bishop, if you have than you know he is no liberal/ revisionists. In fact many you feel are L/R are in fact more orthodox than you are. Name one who is blessing gays or preaching against the divinity of Christ, or that Christ is not the only means to salvation. You invite the Pale Rider to Tim Horton’s, the Pale Rider invites you to the Lord’s Table. I pray Father that be one and you and I are one. Come on Gerry, Christ calls us to fellowship.
sorry pale rider, you are wrong. You say we are not on the same page… incorrect, unfortunately, we are reading from the same Book.
I will not converse with you further!
#261 Correction it should read as follows
“sorry pale rider, you are wrong. You say we are not on the same page… incorrect, unfortunately, we are NOT EVEN reading from the same Book.
I will not converse with you further!
#260 Personally, I think the bishop’s actions with regards to Fr. Critch speak quite elegantly to that.
Pale Rider, this has become a personal conversation between you and Gerry. Please take it to private email.
Kate:
I have made the invitation and that is the end of this thread item for me. Thanks for your words and God Bless.
I guess that Jesus whould have thrown that first stone if he were likeminded to D Critch.
Tom (#265), I think “guess” is the operative word. Can I assume you are from the we-just-need-the-gospels-throw-out-the-rest-of-the-Bible camp? I wonder how often the throw-the-first-stone analogy was invoked when the ACoC was turning a blind eye to sexual and other abuse of children?
I left the ACC a couple of years ago when it became apparent to me that the ACC was no longer a God centered, Bible believing Church. I now worship with the Traditional Anglican Church at 11 am Sunday mornings at the Chapel at Mun. There is a small but growing group of people worshipping with the Book of Common Prayer and holding to traditional Anglicanism. Why not come out for a visit, a coffee and a chat and see if it is a fit for you.
What ever happened to “Thou shalt not judge?” I didn’t realize there were requirements to be a member of the church. Sadly, this sounds more of a political debate than church matters. And to me that is way more inappropriate for a church than two people living together who are not married! I once was an active member of the Anglican church but I am disgusted by some of the things that have been done and said over the past several years and I don’t even feel welcome inside the church doors anymore. I’d rather quietly pray to myself and do good deeds for others than deal with such judgemental attitudes and politics! If the church wants to attract more people, it is certainly going about it in the wrong way! Accept everybody… isn’t that what God is all about??!!!
Sari (#268), you will likely take this as judgmental, but I would humbly suggest that you also spend time reading God’s Word. God’s true character is revealed through His Word. Despite the church’s many imperfections, Christ is its head, and Christians are called to corporate worship. If you study church history, you will find that there have always been requirements to be a member of the Christian church. Requirements that, for the most part, can be found right in Scripture.
268 Sari
For someone who has left the church, you still hold strong emotions for it. I hope you weren’t hurt in your time there.
With respect to this thread, there have been many impassioned exchanges. These are good people with strong opinions.
I simply request that you work your way through them and pray over the arguements.
Peace,
Jim
Warren…. I do read God’s word…. I have it right here on my coffee table (in my house where I appently “live in sin”) and Matthew 7:1-5 reads as follows:
Jesus said to his disciples: “Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you. Why do you notice the splinter in your brother´s eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ´Let me remove that splinter from your eye,´ while the wooden beam is in your eye? You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother´s eye.”
That’s what’s wrong with this world… it is very egocentrical and people see themselves as better than others. Why can’t we accept and celebrate our differences, as long as we’re not hurting one and other?? The world would be a much better place! I respect people who still worship the church, but it’s a shame that the reciprocal is not true and I’m judged as a “sinner” by some, despite the many good things that I do. It is my hope, that there is a greater entity out there beyond the church that will accept me for what I am in the afterlife.
Thanks Jim for your concern but luckily, no I’ve never been physically hurt by the church. However, there have been some things said over the years that have “hurt” me emotionally… and I know I’m a good person and I don’t like being judged for minor things that I’ve done or have happened to me in my life. But I will be a stronger person in the end because of it I hope!!
Sari (#272), perhaps you didn’t mean it this way, but if you are a “good person” in light of God’s law, He has bestowed on you a special grace that he has withheld from everyone else. The passage you quoted to me from Matthew 7 reveals humanity’s inherent sinfulness, and Romans 3:23 spells it out clearly. In fact, the whole of God’s Word points to our sinfulness and our hopeless condition without a saviour. Others may be judgmental when they have no right to be, but it is the judge of our eternal souls that we should stand in fear of. I’m eternally grateful that Christ died for my sins and I need God’s grace every day as I repeatedly stumble.
Yes and after all is said in done, those 2 choir members should be forgiven for their “sins” and Father Darrell should be forgiven for his wrongdoings and the church should come together and stop acting like the House of Commons! It saddens me to see the church go this way as I don’t think it will attract the younger generation like myself. However, I’ve made my decision and I feel I can do a much better job doing good for the world through my profession and through volunter work than I ever did by going to church. Good luck and I hope you resolve your issues so that nobody gets unecissarily hurt in the end. Take care….
Sari (#274), if they have truly repented, God has forgiven them. It doesn’t appear that their sin was against their fellow church members, thus forgiveness in that regard may not be an issue. I encourage you in your desire to do good for the world; such efforts have temporal value. Without a crucified Christ at the centre, however, I am reminded of the words of the preacher who likened good deeds to the shaving a man clamped in an electric chair. I won’t belabour things further.
Father Darrell didn’t do anything wrong, that is the point. He tried to exercise godly discipline – and if those two had accepted the discipline and repented, we wouldn’t ever have heard about it.
I think the point of the scripture that Sari quoted (especially in light of Paul’s instructions on discipline, – I forget where exactly they are, I’m thinking of the passage where he tells us to speak to the person privately, and then if he or she won’t listen, to bring one or two other people to speak, etc – ) isn’t that we are never to judge, but that we are to do it in humility, bearing in mind that the standards we use on other people will in turn be used on us.
I’ve been following this blog and finding it very entertaining and I have two points to make. First of all, you do not have to be a member of an organized church to believe in Christ. There are good Christians out there who never go to church… that does not mean they do not worship the Lord. And in some ways, I feel these people are the better Christians as churches these days are bordering on businesses and have completely forgotten the true meaning of Christianity. There is a fine line. Secondly, who are you people to say that Father Darrell did or did not do anything wrong? That is a matter or opinion and in the eyes of many, he IS the one who has done something wrong. As Sari pointed out, the scripture says that judging is wrong just like it apparently says that living together out of wedlock is wrong. And this is 2008 people, not the Dark Age! So I have to agree with Sari. Who is to say who is right or wrong in this situation… only God can be the judge of that in the end! So if the people at St. Mary’s are true Christians, they would put this issue in the past, accept each other’s rights and wrongs, and come together again to worship God.
John (#277), I agree that this blog has some entertainment value, many of us likely wouldn’t visit if it had none. That said, serious issues are discussed. You provided several opinions, but I see no scriptural basis for them. For those of us who view Scripture as God’s infallible Word, your opinions are not compelling. Can you argue from the Bible that it is acceptable for Christians to deliberate choose to “go solo”, or that church discipline should not be exercised? What is the “true meaning of Christianity” that you think churches have forgotten? Also, what does the Dark Ages have to do with anything – unless you view truth as relative? Over to you.
Interesting points Warren and I agree I have no scriptures to back up my points. However, one can have beliefs based on morality that are not necessarily taken from scriptures. My point about the dark ages is to highlight that we live in a revolving world and just because something wasn’t acceptable in biblical times does not mean it is not acceptable now. Think about it… were those 2 choir members really hurting anybody?? I do not know them personally, but from what I gathered from a friend of a friend who goes to St. Mary’s (and I know stories get chaged as the get passed on) but apparently these two people were widowed. Now can you honestly tell me that you feel they were doing any harm by enjoying each other’s company? I’d much rather see two people happy (again as long as no harm is done) than to be lonley and having to spend the rest of their lives by themselves! How sad would that be!! I’m in my 30′s and almost all of my single friends are living “in sin” (that term actually cracks me up) and to me, this is no big crime. They are good people of all walks of life… these are people who are doctors, social workers, human rights workers, people who have volunteered in the 3rd world countries, etc. … down to earth, honest to goodness people! You cannot tell me that they will be turned away at heaven’s gates because they live with someone without the church’s blessing, can you??? What about all of those people who are married but not in a church or by a priest/minister/rabi… whatever…. are these people techinically living in sin as well??!! If that’s the church’s attitude, why they would want to be part of it! It’s no wonder the church is dying. I feel sad that it is, but both you and I know that the numbers are down. The church needs to be more accepting and if that would ever happen, not only do I think it would get more members, I think it would be a happier, loving, caring, honest, virtuous place… those are the qualities that I believe make up the “true meaning of Christianity”.
John (#279), you’re a fast responder. My wife has just informed me that supper is in five minutes, but I’ll fire back a quick reply. At the core, I don’t believe we worship the same God. Your view of morality is relative – if society thinks it’s fine and it doesn’t hurt anyone, then go for it. If, in 50 years, our society has decided that eating babies is desirable, presumably you’ll go with that as well (at least you wouldn’t have any logically consistent basis for arguing against it). My God is a God of truth – truth that does not change regardless of the whims of sinful man. He has laid down moral absolutes that, in one sense, are more strict in the New Testament than in the Old (to look at a woman in a lustful way is to commit adultery). We really have no common ground.
No John I guess we don’t. Sadly you see yourself as a better person because you go to church and I do not… again there is a judgemental attitude. And for the record, eating babies would cause harm, so therefore I would not engage in such a shameful activity because my morals would not let me commit such a sick act. I’m not closed minded enough to put all my beliefs in one book. So do you believe in “an eye for an eye” as well? No I bet you do not, so you cannot tell me you agree with the Bible 100%. I base my beliefs on ethics and morals and I’ll back that up with the Websters Dictionary “expressing or teaching a conception of right behavior”. Some of these morals are based on the Bible and some of them or not. . Right and wrong is in your heart and soul, not in the pages of a book! And as far as I’m concerned as long as nobody or no thing gets hurt, then it’s acceptable. And in this case that we are discussing, nobody was being hurt, so as far as I’m concerned it’s none of Father Darrell’s business what goes on in the home of these two individuals. I think he has more important things to worry about at the moment like the stability of his job!! And I think I will put this issue to rest now because I feel I have proven my point. Goodness comes from within… don’t forget that as it may be valuable advice some day!
John (#281), I fully suspect that I am a worse person than you. Knowing something of my own character, I know wouldn’t be a very nice person were it not for God’s grace. Even with His grace and the help of the Holy Spirit, I am still ashamed of many of the thoughts that enter my mind. Nothing I can do, going to church included, will make me any better in God’s eyes. Without the sacrifice of Christ, atoning for my sin, I am just another wicked, rebellious, defiant creature who has turned his back on the creator. I don’t believe there is any other way to God.
I don’t claim to fully understand everything in the Bible, or to know how to properly interpret all of it, but I do believe it is the infallible Word of God. I try to be obedient and read it every day, but, again, that is not something worthy of any merit. It is studied far more diligently by people who mock God.
281 John
How do you feel about christian-witches, or any other self identified quasi-christian?
One of the reasons the early church developed creeds was to establish what it meant to be a Chrisitian. Of course there are disagreements among denominations on various aspects of those creeds but the core essentials are shared.
In the context of this thread, Fr Critch fulfilled his pastoral responsibility to the individuals and the parish. You disagree that there is something un-christian about a couple in a leadership position living together outside the bounds of marriage. Scripture says otherwise, but then you do not seem to want to be bound by scripture either.
Oh and by the way, I am a miserable sinner who sincerly seeks redemption through repentance washed clean by the blood of the lamb.
Peace,
Jim
I was going to respond to John, but Jim said everything I would have, and said it better. Peace.
How sad!
The lagacy of misguided leadership from ‘the don’ for too many years in that diocese….it is true – you reap what you sow!
RK (#285), for those of us who are a little slow on the uptake (I guess I should just speak for myself), perhaps you could explain what you are talking about?
Revy Kevy, you back with us again?
#284 Warren – The Diocese of Eastern Newfoundland and Lab was previously under the episcopal oversight of a man named don harvey. The mess that presently exists in that diocese that seems to be well outlined in this thread, did not come by accident. Look to the last bishop and the legacy he left behind and it all makes sense … as so many on this page have reminded us ‘we reap what we sow.”
#285 Peter – Just back from a visit to NL where I learned of this mess, a simple google search on the matter and mr critch brought me back to this ‘happy’ place… “bird of a feather…” no worries I will not be staying. no need to shut down threads or anything like that.
ON A DIFFERENT MATTER – I must say that I just came back as well from our diocesan synod and I have never been more proud to be an anglican. our debate on the ssb was mature and open and all voices were heard. The voices that tried to stifle the conversation by tabling or ammending were heard – and theor motions were defeated. Conservatives and liberals alike wanted our converation to continue and we wanted a decison. I was impressed with the way with which both sides presented their positions with a great deal of respect. and felt that indeed, Holy Spirit was at work and our decision was prayerfully made – it is good to have mature dialogue and debate.
Many Blessings to you all in ANiCland
I’ll keep praying with you and for you – perhaps you might do the same for me.
Revy Kevy (#285), your assertion that all the Anglican problems in Newfoundland are the fault of one man is not at all clear to me from this thread. There have been a few “drive by shootings” (very cliché for the blogoshpere), but I have not read any thoughtful and well-reasoned arguments. Why don’t you give it a try? And, since you are questioning Christian pastoral responsibility, reference to Scripture would be helpful.
Your mention that everyone at Synod wanted the “conversation to continue” is interesting to me. As I view Anglicanism mostly as an outsider, I have come to recognize the desire for endless talk as an Anglican distinctive – and one that has not served the denomination well. 1 Tim 1: 3-11 immediately came to mind.
When you pray with/for ANiC people, I’m curious as to exactly what you are praying for? Is your prayer “with” of one mind with your prayer “for”?
Even though we disagree on some matters of theology, I can still pray with you … and for you. To answer your question specifically, I pray daily that those who have journeyed to ANiC will find peace and direction. I pray that all who have walked away from the AOC will have found refuge and a place in which to express their faith and proclamation in a manner more in keeping with their own theology. I pray that all members of the network will know God in their lives and in their hearts. I pray that the leadership of the Network will strive for Godly direction and avoid arrogance and pride. I pray that the AniC and all who profess the name of Jesus might be a witness to the world of love, compassion, hope and forgiveness. And I pray for a day when we can really converse and dialogue. I pray that I might forgive thise things that have been said about my church, and that my church might be forgiven for how it has hurt those who have felt it necesaary to walk away. To God be the Glory…that is my prayer.
My comment at the end of the last post was a genuine offer and request for prayer – I am sorry that it offended your sensibilties. Still I reamin …. in prayer,
Kevin
Kevin (#290), thank you for your answer – I am not offended by it. Based on you previous response to Peter (#288), I gather that you will likely not try to defend your assertions about Don Harvey on this blog. I won’t push it any further. Comment #285 does have the appearance of a “drive by shooting”, however, which seems antithetical to your subsequent comments about “conversation”.
Oh for a scientific or some other measurable method of determining if indeed there is such a thing as “being called by God” to do His work. A person who studies medicine can be tested and measured…he/she may prescribe medications, perform procedures and be shown to cure and save lives. Likewise a tradesperson will demonstrate his skills by repairing engines, produce masterpieces in woodworks or other materials. Proof of their professions. However, they do not have to swear by Almighty God that they were “called” to a skilled trade or profession. Yet, men and women can decide to red and study Bible Stories and other similar writings and get into great positions of trust and autority and have such enormous control over the lives of other poor humans. Hey, some have been making great money in jobs from which they recently retire from.
For those who think women cannot have a “call from God” to be His minister please remember now, can it be measured or otherwise proven eh? Oh yes, we subject males to tests and get a valid proof of a ‘calling” so we have to ordain them. We can’t test and prove females who have been “called”?
Also, as a priest to be called to live by God’s rules …how about divorced priests being held in high esteem in the church community?
And, yet a supposedly God fearing rector could not chastise a couple in his parish? Is there a pot calling the kettle black anywhere in the whole church of any denomination? What a farce. I bet there are very few truly called priests in our midst. Others could not pass a prerequisite for Engineering, Medicine, Nursing, Autobody Refinishing or whatever. Read some stories, boy, (or girl) as\nd sweat that you have been “called”. There you go, status in the community right away! Who can prove it otherwise. Maybe you have the gift to be able to fool all of the people all of the time.
Bill, what point are you trying to make? That it is impossible to deny that someone is called to ministry if they claim to be, or that God does not call people to ministry at all, or something else entirely.
As to the first case, there are many ways for the Christian community to discern if a person is so called; for instance, is the person a faithful Christian and does he demonstrate a commitment to Jesus in their day to day life?, does the person have any skills in this area?, does the person show good character? etc. If someone claims to have experienced a call to ministry and does not exhibit a Biblically-faithful lifestyle (such as Gene Robinson), then he is not called to ministry, but to repentence.
In the second case, if you think God does not call people to ministry, you must have a strange understanding of God (perhaps a deistic one). In any case, please clarify your remarks for our understanding.
Bill (#292), like Charles (#293) I’m not sure I understand your point. No one who claims to believe the Bible would argue that God does not gives spiritual gifts to His children, including the gifts of preaching, teaching, etc. (elder-type gifts). In a properly functioning body of believers, it is reasonable and biblical to trust the judgment of elders in determining who should be permitted to occupy positions of spiritual service. I do not consider the ACoC to be a properly functioning body of believers, so the onus then falls on the individual believer to discern whether he should submit himself to the spiritual leadership of a pastor or look for another church. The requirement for believers to be discerning is also clearly biblical.
In my experience, the burden of responsibility for those who have been truly called to preach and teach rests heavily on their shoulders, and they take very seriously what is said in James 3:1. Those who misuse their position will be called to task in the final judgment. Fortunately, God can still use those whose motives may not be pure, as Paul explains in Philipians 1:15-18.
I will simplify my views. I wonder how many of our ministers have been “called”. I doubt that God calls a person to do his work up to age 60 only and then retire. I have noticed cases when the going gets tough there are those ministers who retire or even resign. I also wonder how many ministers of any denomination become ministers because they have no ability to study law, medicine, a good trade or whatever. Many men & women lead good Christian lives of good character and demonstrating committments to Jesus but are serving in other porfessions and trades.
Again, it is all a matter of trust and mystery by those examining an applicant. All a matter of judgement. No real proof or ways of testing even after completing the courses of study.
And for those denominations who will not accept that a woman can become a minister…well, what test is there to say she is not? There is no measurement to confirm that a man has been called.
Let’s be realistic about this whole spiritual and mystical group of folks who claim they are doing God’s ministry and can hear the private confessions of those who trust, and by reading prayers and even stumble over reading an absolution ( if some person does not hold the book in front of him). Some of this should be from the soul and not from the arrangements of words on a page.
Oh the pomp and pagentry enjoyed by them, yet there is no real test to determine if he really has all the powers ascribed to him (or her!). What a mystery which causes so much conflict among mankind (womankind).
Bill (#295), I agree that there are those holding religious office who were not called. I agree too that those who have truly been called do not retire from Christian service (at least not in my experience). A good example is John Wesley who, in his 87th year, wrote:
I am still unclear, however, as to the real intent of your comment. Are you suggesting that many active clergy in the ACoC may not have been called, or are you saying that God has failed his Church by not providing a better test for calling (or both)?
Were there any postings since #296 ?
Bill (#297), just yours, I think. This thread is now quite far down the list.
to bad it has fallen so short of 300!
Pity, isn’t it.