I first thought I’d link to the LambethConference article, but then I thought perhaps it would be better reproduced in full. This exchange underlines precisely why the ANiC parishes are doing what they have to do:
Paula Valentine, a parishioner at St. Hilda’s Oakville, Province of the Southern Cone wrote a letter to the editor of the Niagara Anglican (Christopher M. Grabiec), the monthly diocesan newspaper. Here is what she wrote:
As a parishioner of St Hilda’s I would like to comment on the inaccuracies in this article.
The service held at St Hilda’s by the Diocese drew 24 people – not 40 (I was there!)
The people who attended the 10:30 (136 people) service were current and a few former parishioneres who came to show support. Approximately 5 people came from other churches to show their support. None of these attendees were called or e-mailed to request their presence as per the earlier service.
The Diocese had requested the earlier service supposedly to cater to those of St Hilda’s who were feeling disenfranchised by the vote. As the vote was unanimous there were no disenfranchised. Therfore, the Diocese rounded up people to avoid embarrassment. None of the people in attendance had any association with St Hilda’s – past or present. They all freely told us that they had been recruited. This service was held at a time to deliberately disrupt the regular services. The earlier service (which many of our seniors love) had to be cancelled. We thought we had reached everyone but unfortunately one of our senior gentlemen showed up and left in tears. Our 10:00 service had to be moved to 10:30. What poor manners the Diocese demonstrated!
As for the comment “The- priest – in – charge”, the priest in charge of the congregation of St Hilda’s is The Rev. Canon Paul Charbonneau.
Sincerely,
Paula ValentineP.S. I cannot comment on the references to St George’s as I was not present at their service. I have heard of the gross inaccuracies in that part of your story but I am hopeful that they will take the time to correct your mistakes.
Here is the reply Paula Valentine received from Christopher Grabiec, editor of the Niagara Anglican and Communications Officer for the Diocese of Niagara:
Thank you Paula for your comments. Of course, there are errors in your comments – as the priest in charge is not Paul and Paul is not a Canon any longer – unless he has been appointed so by the Southern Cone which he has joined.
We are all very happy for you and for St. Hilda’s. We hope that your journey will lead you along the path of faith and justice. We hope that the hatred that you have for the community of Anglicans in Canada who see justice in a different way from you will soon be healed. We hope that your disregard for the community of faithful gay people in the church of Canada will also soon dissipate.
The property of St. Hilda’s belongs to the entire diocese. It would be an violation of justice to previous parishioners as well as to all members of the diocese to allow the property to be taken by an unauthorized community. The Bishop (and he is a good man) is Michael Bird and not anyone else. He deserves the respect of every Anglican, as he has been called to this ministry by God’s Spirit.
Tgain we wish you the very best as you continue to find your place in the Christian community.
Chris +Christopher M. Grabiec, BA STB MDiv MA
Editor, Niagara Anglican; Web Development; Communications, Diocese of Niagara
I’ll abstain from commenting on this, for the moment. Mainly because Paula Valentine already has, when she wrote Mr. Grabiec back:
If you read what I said, I said that Paul is the priest in charge of our congregation – which he is – no matter who the Diocese thinks is in charge of the building. As for your comments about my “hatred” for the Anglican community. It is my love for the Anglican community that has led me to this position. And how dare you say that I have disregard for the community of faithful gay people. You do not know me or my views, and I assure you sir, you could not be more wrong.
I am amazed that such a hateful response has been sent accusing me of just that. I pray in all of this that you will learn love and tolerance for all (as you so espouse).
Mr. Grabiec responds to Paula Valentines reply, above:
Thanks for your response. It’s delightful.
Pray for the ANiC parishes, pray also for the Diocese of Niagara and Rev Grabiec.
As I said on the other site, I am shocked that a priest wrote that.
It is so sad and disheartening to see the ugly side of the Diocesan leadership coming out. It is very unattractive and embarrassing. Maybe the faithful, courageous priests across Canada who choose to honor God by taking a stand for Biblical Christianity saw this ugliness and mean-spiritedness in the inner priestly circles that we lay people could not or did not want to see. However, “be not downcast, o my soul,” for, Lord willing, out of this upheaval and spiritual battle a strong, faithful remnant of the Anglican Church will emerge to lift the cross up high for future generations.
First, God Bless Paula Valentine for writing to Mr. Grabiec+ and setting things straight. The arrogance in his answer to her is, while rude and without any hint of his supposed Christian Love, to be expected. We can no longer expect to see very much coming from any Diocese in Canada that will be in charity and have any hope within.
“The Anglican Church of Canada is in fact two churches, not one, with two different religions at work – one is heterodox, the other is orthodox. One has a “gospel” of inclusion the other has a gospel of redemption. These are irreconcilable positions”.
This is why the orthodox have no choice but to go to ANiC and temporarily to the Southern Cone.
Stand Firm St. Hilda’s and all others who have made the split. The costs will be great but the reward will be greater than staying within the Anglican Church of Canada.
The following from The Book of Isaiah I find to be encouraging:
Isaiah 43: 2,5 & 6
“2 When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you.
When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned; the flames will not set you ablaze.
5 Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your children from the east and gather you from the west.
6 I will say to the north, ‘Give them up!’ and to the south, ‘Do not hold them back.’ Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth-”
I too find Rev Grabiec’s comments shocking and hope Bishop Bird will ask for his resignation as Editor of the Niagara Anglican and communications for the Diocese. It would be most wise if he didn’t say one more word as a spokesperson for the Diocese of Niagara.
Mr. Grabiec’s comments are completely inappropriate for someone speaking on behalf of a diocese. If they were offered as a personal letter they would be understandable, though still rude and unfair. As an authorized response to a letter to the editor, they are unlike anything that I’ve seen before. I am embarrased for Niagara that they have someone like this working for them.
Isn’t it telling, though, that many of the commenters here are shocked, but not suprised?
Liz:
I don’t think I would hold my breath waiting to see rev. Grabiec’s dismissal from his JOB by the Bird. Not going to happen…..this is all part of their agenda.
LOL Kate — NOTHING about this “church” could surprise me now.
I would suggest to the new Bishop he has an opportunity to add much needed respect to his new office.That opportunity is how he publicly handles the ignorant letter sent in reply to Paula Valentine by his Editor of the Anglican.
Telling the truth is fundamental or at least it should be.People who distort the truth knowingly in the media to support their cause is disgusting. Do senior members of the Diocese of Niagara put themselves above the truth? Seems so.
If Mr.( having a problem using Rev.) Grabiec does not apologise to Paula then he should be removed from the position as Editor.Ignorance is ignorance and there is no excuse for his reply of hatred or bias towards Paula.
Mr.Grabiec,it matters not the number of initials after your name . Your so-called higher education does not allow you to write such garbage. I would suggest you could add one more set of initials after your name.They woud be I.G..In case your wondering what they stand for,let me suggest IGNORANT simply because your letter to Paula proves such.
Yes, let us give Bishop Bird the opportunity to practise the gospel he preaches, ( having read his sermon from last Sunday on Jesus encounter with the Samaritan woman at the well), and hope that he will use his authority as Diocesan Bishop to ask for Rev. Grabiec’s resignation as Editor. But please, friends, let us not stoop to the level of Rev. Grabiec in our responses. We will be called to give account for our words and actions to a much higher authority.
To Gerry O’Brien,
You just referred to Bishop Bird as The Bird — and you are lecturing others about rude discourse.
http://www.rockabilly.nl/lyrics4/s0130.htm
(sorry)
Simply to clarify, Mr. Grabiec is not ordained. He makes great use of his degrees as letters for the end of his replies, and enjoys lecturing the diocese through his editorship of the paper, but he is a layperson, now of the Anglican Church, previously of the Roman Catholic. He is a difficult editor, with little patience for a balanced portrayal of issues which threaten to tear the Church apart.
Thanks for the information on Mr. Grabiec, Fr. Hubbard. I am honestly relieved he is not a member of the clergy! I do hope that Bishop Bird will closely examine the correspondence between Mr. Grabiec and Ms. Valentine and ask himself if he wishes this man to be editor of the ‘Niagara Anglican’ at this time. An editor who is so blatantly biased in his opinions and who fuels the fires of discord that the Diocese claims to be trying to put out should not be tolerated.
Please do keep it civil please. I know the comments are egregious; take a deep breath and return blessings for curses. Much prayer is needed!
11neveurmagne ~ “You just referred to Bishop Bird as The Bird — and you are lecturing others about rude discourse.” quote by Me.
You know you are so right, I will call him bishop or the bishop (with a small b), but from what I have observed in the workings of the Diocesan bishop for Niagara; just calling bishop Bird “the Bird” doesn’t seem quite so bad as what you are making it.
On Sesame street, they had a “Big Bird” and nobody got really upset. Larry Robinson of Montreal Canadians fame was often called the Bird and never got upset. What bishop Bird has done to St. Hilda’s Congregation and Parish and what bishop Bird’s Editor has done is by far much worse and much more rude.
When Bishop Bird takes steps against what Mr. Grabiec has done, then I think would be a really respectable time to apologize, but I will do it now for having upset you so much, “neveurmagne”.
Shakespeare once said that we should “Accept a man warts and all” and that is true. We’ve seen one of Mr. Grabiec’s ‘warts’, You’ve seen one of my ‘warts’. I won’t ask what one of your warts is “neveurmagne”. Forgive me. Thank You.
Everyone: I am a member of one of the parishes that has been targeted by the Diocese of Niagara for termination. They have no remorse, they feel no pity, they will not stop until we are gone.
Nevertheless, to quote one of my favourite songs: “When the darkness closes in, Lord, still I will say, Blessed be the name of the Lord, blessed be your name”
Last Sunday we had two services, the first was conducted by an apostate; it was so bad, it made me cry. During the second, God showed up and that was all that mattered.
Regardless of how this turns out, “as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” Discussions continue; I think we will be in court on Friday. Please pray.
We will be praying, David.
Rev. Canon Paul Charbonneau, David Jenkins and the Congregation at St. Hilda’s and Canon Charlie Masters and crew at St. Georges’s Lowville…. You are all in our prayers, from Coast to Coast and around the world of the faithful. Bless You all.
Dear St. Hilda’s: How wonderful it must be to be so pious and righteous! Please go!!!
Perhaps Mr. Grabiec should also be told about the etiquette of using a + sign in correspondence in the context of the Anglican Church. By signing his correspondence Chris +, I inferred that he was a priest rather than a layman.
One of the new priests I knew signed off a report in the parish newsletter as +A. Someone asked him when he had been appointed a bishop. Ah, A blushes really, really well.
Dean (#20), are you talking to the Dioceses version of St Hilda’s, or the people who voted to move out from under the authority of the ACoC? Or, are you just addressing your comment to the building? Can I assume that you would like the vast majority of Christians, regardless of the denominational label they wear, to “Please go!!!”?
Bill, dear, you shouldn’t have told that story about A+. Folk will figure out who you mean…
Yes, Bill in Ottawa is my other half.
dean said:
“Dear St. Hilda’s: How wonderful it must be to be so pious and righteous! Please go!!!”
Dear Dean ~ I have read St. Hilda’s Church website over the past six months and have not seen anywhere on it any signs would lead one to possibly think your statement to be even close to the truth.
The people of this Parish (and this is based on everything I have read) are absolutely wonderful Christians who only want to do The Lord’s Work and remain faithful to The Holy Bible.
Why is it that liberal/revisionists are so afraid of Bible Believing Christians? Why is it that the fear is driving them to want the Faithful Christians out of what used to be a Bible Believing Church (Many, Many Decades ago).
It is most unfortunate that your statement is an indicator of the feelings of a small percentage of most of the individual parishioners withing Anglican Church of Canada congregations. Unfortunately most of the “Parishes” have been under “gag” orders from their respective Bishops to NOT ALLOW anything about the Anglican Network in Canada or Essentials Canada to be spoken of. The uninformed and the ones who are ignorant of the truth in this because of such Gag Orders are going to be very, very upset when ALL THE TRUTH comes out.
Hi Haynes! I remember you from St. Alban’s! Nice to “see” you…
#11 – I’m wondering why you use a Joaul oath for a pen name…
RE post 24: Yes, “absoultely wonderful” – above reproach and certainly not capable of misinterpreting the Lord’s word!
Why are people so afraid of “bible believing Christians” such as yourself? Because of the hypocritical way that you people interpret it – picking and choosing to suit your purposes.
I believe that our church has already gone through a considerable period (many years) of self-sorting – which is why you have parishes like St. Hilda’s in Oakville and St. John’s in Vancouver proudly proclaiming that their respective votes on the matters at hand are unanimous. What a suprise! Proof will be in the pudding but I strongly suspect that it is voices like yours that we will find to be in the minority. So, I say again – please finalize the deal and leave! Slip the keys into the mail slot on the way out.
Because of the hypocritical way that you people interpret it – picking and choosing to suit your purposes.
That’s exactly what we try not to do, actually. Before you ask me why I don’t advocate stoning, go do a web search on the 39 articles and read article 7.
Well then Kate, you must certainly be correct on all accounts! Carry on – but leave the keys in the mail slot. Cheers!
Wow! Nasty stuff Dean. Shame. You’re not really winning any friends here.
Never said I was correct on all counts – but I am not a hypocrite, nor are ANiC’s leaders.
Dean: you hold the new record for the time it takes to descend from reason to argumentum ad hominem.
Dean (#27), I agree with your comment about many years of self-sorting. During my relatively short time in an Anglican church, one of the first questions I asked my pastor was how a true believer could remain in some of the parishes I was hearing about. The answer, I expect, is that few did remain in those churches where the gospel was twisted into an all-inclusive message that tickled the ears of those who did not want to turn from their sin. If a vote was held in all parishes across the country, I expect that, in virtually all cases, there would be a strong majority one way or the other. I have no doubt that this is a big part of the reason why Anglican numbers have declined over the years while other denominations have grown. Sheep and goats cannot fellowship together.
Dean, I’m not feeling the loving radical inclusivity. . .
I was witness to the uninvited and unannounced visit to St. Chad’s by the Bishop of Toronto during Sunday service on the 24th of Feb.. I heard him say “this is my Church” (no comment needed) I also heard him announce that Bishop Poole would hold a meeting the Following Evening to clarify issues. A nickle short and a day late was my first thought. When I asked the Bishop If this is what is meant by the oft mentioned “adequate pastoral oversight for those in disagreement” I was ignored.
RE: 33
Indeed, the denominations embracing christian and islamic fundamentalism have grown exponentially! The parallels between these two groups are frightening.
Dean (#33), this is getting wearisome, but I’m easily lured in (it’s my weakness). Your “logic” is illogical, and your hyperbole is predictable. Statistics Canada reports a similar decline in Anglican and Jehovah’s Witness attendance over the period 1991 – 2001; to which I say, so what. It proves absolutely nothing. If you think that someone who believes the Bible to be the inspired and infallible Word of God is a “fundamentalist”, then I’ll be honoured to have you call me one (actually, call me whatever you want). I’m sure, however, that you can’t produce any credible statistics to show that “fundamentalism has grown exponentially” (over whatever undefined time period you had in mind). Who’s more likely to invite an Islamic cleric to share a platform; the ABC or the leader of a “fundamental” evangelical denomination? Oh, I guess the events of the last couple of weeks made that clear, didn’t they. But I certainly wouldn’t draw any general conclusions about Anglican believers based on the actions or statements of the ABC. Cheerio.
And now for an interesting quote on fundamentalism and liberal theologians from atheist philosopher Richard Rorty (who seems to have much more insight than Dean):
http://politicsandreligion-danny.blogspot.com/2008/02/richard-rorty-on-appeal-of-protestant.html