Ottawa Bishop to rule on same-sex blessings soon
Jan 13th, 2008 by Peter
Read the full story here.
A couple of snippets caught my attention:
Anglican Bishop John Chapman says he will likely decide within seven months or so whether to allow blessings of same-sex unions in the Ottawa diocese.
….
Then, Bishop Chapman said, the three Ontario bishops whose dioceses have asked for same-sex blessings ought to be able to come to some agreement on how to proceed “in a way that will be compatible with the Anglican Church of Canada as well.”
Hmm, I thought it had already been worked out, something along the lines of ‘we’re doing this, get over it’ ;-).
Bishop Chapman said he had heard rumours of some Ottawa parishes leaving to join parallel church structures, but so far nobody has actually done it.
“I have yet to receive any hard data. I wonder, now that things are happening, if it’s more fun talking about it than acting on it.”
I would be surprised if Bishop Chapman is not aware of the 90 day discernment period that the Network outlined at the Burlington conference. Hence, this seems more like needless antagonism, somewhat less than helpful given the circumstances.
You know, if we’re asking them for 90 days, wouldn’t it only be fair to give Chapman a chance to come up with an actual decision on this (and then, perhaps, have another 90-day discernment period)? At the moment, we’re just assuming that he’s going to make the wrong decision. While his actions would indeed seem to indicate that he’s become quite hardened, I still think that we should give him the benefit of doubt.
We were expecting something to happen in February with the Network Parishes I believe.
With apologies to my Anglican friends (some of whom are very discerning), I have never encountered another denomination that talks more about discernment yet has less of it.
The ACC is determined to have its cake and eat it too. ++Fred tells the rest of the Communion that he doesn’t authorize SSB while he is trying to slip it under the radar. Like the Pepsi ad says Wake up!!
For a group that says there are more issues that SSB, you guys certainly spend A LOT of hours talking about it. The Devil is having a great time right now! Shame!
Mark, it is the presenting issue. Not to talk about it would be to ignore the Elephant in the Room.
Andrew, I live in Ottawa. One of Bishop Chapman’s first liturgical actions as bishop was to celebrate communion at an Integrity event. In addition, I think if you search Crosstalk (the Dio. of Ottawa’s paper), and other media interviews with him, it is perfectly obvious that he doesn’t intend to do the right thing; the last comment that Peter quoted says to me that, in fact, he is trying to goad the orthodox into acting thoughtlessly. In addition, he has had the same “90 days” that we have had. If he had wanted to make the right decision, he could have. I have absolutely no trust in him, at all.
So what Bsp. Chapman is saying is “in 7 months or so I will be allowing the blessing of SSM. He is NOT going to go against it! This man and others are just chomping at the bit to get on with this (along with Primate Hiltz) and other immoral and anti 39 Articles of Religion business.
This Anglican Church of Canada in partnership with TEC is fast becoming, NO, it has become the joke of the Anglican Communion worldwide. This Country is the most liberal country in the Anglican world is will not stop for anyone. It is like a runaway train and can only end up in a catastrophic collision and will destroy itself and those who remain part of it.
Those who are “seeing the light”, like ANiC, Essentials, CANA, CCP etc. are moving on, with or without the ACC, this is the way it must be whether we want to admit it or not.
In Deuteronomy, Moses told the people of Israel (at the Lord’s command) that they were never to forget the things they had assembled together in the Book of Numbers. That they were to remember these things for their Children and their Children’s Children. Our ACC has not followed that same advice which stands today as it did in Moses time and now we are paying the price. This has gone on long enough. Enough generations have gone in the wrong direction, let those of us who can get back on course get back on course.
Mrs. Falstaff ~ I was writing No. 7 as you were posting No. 6.
I agree totally with you.
Blessings to the faithful in Ottawa from “down east”
Warren ~ being a tad judgemental about discernment aren’t we? I really enjoy reading your posts, but do you really believe that we lack discernment any more that the other mainline churches?
Today, the Presbyterians, the Uniteds, the Anglicans, the Roman Catholics and many others are showing very little if any disccernment. The only ones that I see showing it are those who are mostly writing on this blog and on others around the world. Fragments of Churches gone wrong.
Unfortunately most of the mainline churches are power and money controlled and do not adhere to the Spiritual leadings of God. They prefer to follow the lead of the flesh.
Keep writing Warren.
Drumroll - I know Warren pretty well, I think that was just an example of acerbic wit that didn’t translate very well to “pen and paper”…
Hey, Drumroll, how “down east” is down east? (My hubby’s a Labradorian, which is why I am curious….)
Drumroll (#9), your point is well taken; I am not familiar with the other “mainline” denominations or the RCC. Do you think they spend as much time talking about discernment and “discernment periods” as the ACoC?
Mrs. Falstaff (#10), thank you for not calling me an “acerbic twit” (a moniker I probably deserve on occasion).
The name Crosstalk caught my attention. In telecom language that is a condition when you get conflicting messages coming down the same wire. I read a few of their papers on SSB, most strongly and well justified biblically against. The tone of the summary reminded my of my days doing research. Normally you look to see what is there, you never assume that you will find what you want. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence!
One could never accuse the ACC of following secular ways. Any CEO that went against a shareholder vote, or a regional manager that defied company policy would be on EI, quickly!
Warren: Discernment….hmmmmm..Gift of the Holy Spirit I believe.
Makes me wonder; question; think about….how many in all of the mainline churches have really thought about receiving such a wonderful gift. I know some in high places that should consider asking for such a gift ALONG with the rest of the gifts. My biggest challenge is maintaining Charity.
Mrs Falstaff - I’ll put it this way…..8 miles further and I’ll be swimming to Ireland from the farthest east in N.America….
and thanks for the kind words towards Warren, makes me see things through less of a colored glass.
Blessings to both
St. Johns?
Ferryland, maybe? Or Cappahayden? You have piqued my curiosity….
St. John’s
Mrs. Falstaff ~ I do suspect that small “m” michael and myself have met before in St. John’s…..if he is who I think then he is a very sincere and likeable chap.
Warren “Do you think they spend as much time talking about discernment and “discernment periods” as the ACoC?”
Don’t know, but likely and very likely just as few have a clue about it as in the ACC…..most don’t, mainly because most have never experienced.
#18 - I won’t comment other than to point you to comment #58 on the Pitman thread.
Mrs. Falstaff ~ Methinks I could be in error here….Likely I have not met him OR I have met him and he is a chameleon.
PETER: I cannot make further comment on the Bishop Pitman thread so I must make it here.
Thank you for putting an end to that particular direction the thread was going, but, I must add, there may have been other items to go on that particular thread that are now blocked and that is unfortunate.
Thought, small “m” michael has been needling this blog site since it’s inception, is there not any way that his computer could be blocked from accessing this site. It seems a shame that he has had the ability to cause many threads to go into the abyss of directions he wanted them to go, intentionally directing them away from the thread intent.
Just a thought.
I heartily second that.
Yes, sorry for the abrupt end to that thread, only I was on my way out so that was the quickest solution. I am going to be looking into just what you say, hopefully I’ll have something in place sson.
Well, if people like me had the self control to ignore troll like behaviour it wouldn’t be an issue, now would it, sigh. Sorry, folks.
#21 Peter, I use the moderation command on my blog, slows things down but nobody ever says anything on mine, ’cause either A: I’m always right, B: they are loss on how to tear me apart or C: nobody reads me and my blog counter is just defective. Plan B is to delete the comment. Not sure if reporting a comment as spam will block the IP. But a lot of IP’s on even DSL and Wave are partially dynamic so that is not always an option. I have a couple of forums I moderate and fortunately there I have no problem removing really disagreeable posts. Thats the mechanics.
I believe in freedom of opinion but that is not quaranteed here. Writers who choose to inflame a debate should be prepared for censure.
We need a 2nd Commandment Filter
As someone who helped feed the flames in the thread in question, my perspective can be taken with a grain of salt. I think it is a challenge for the moderators of many blogs/forums to find the right balance between unrestricted comments, which can get nasty but generate a lot of traffic, and heavily moderated comments, which can result in forum becoming nothing more than a news site (with the resultant loss of traffic). When censure happens, and there are doubtlessly occasions when it should, I think it is helpful for the moderator to give notice of the action. It is not conducive to an active site to have an atmosphere where some commenters are viewed as part of the “team”, with everyone else not sure where they stand or when their comment may suddenly be removed without warning. I guess it all comes down to what you really want a blog/forum to be.
True enough, Warren, but we are talking about one poster with a proven behaviour track record - not deleting posts willy nilly. I think, though, that the “moderator giving notice of the action” is a good idea.
Oh, re your “twit vs wit” comment a few days ago - I’d never call you a twit on a blog - to your face, maybe, but never on a blog…
Mrs. F, ducking virtual rotten tomatoes…..
Peter
The role of women in the church has come up several times on various threads, perhaps we should start a thread specifically dealing with this issue. It is a serious issue which deserves thoughtful and prayerful examination of scripture. What does scripture say in the original languages, who was writing it, to whom and for what reason? What are the issues in translation and applying the teaching in a vastly different culture?
Peter: Re Post 27…..the troll is at it again….sigh!
(Ed - that comment removed)
He’s not a good troll, though. Good trolls are able to make a single comment on a thread, and then step back and watch the fireworks ensue without having to return to stoke the fire. Michael needs both a stoker and bellows to keep things going.
I like Cathy’s idea; although I imagine it may be a challenge to keep the discussion civil.
Comment removed by admin
michael - I’d point you to the Blog Rules above. If you want to continue with the discussion in light of that, then please do so. If not, please realise your comments will be edited or removed. Thank you.
Several times name-calling and mud slinging have come my way via this blog, but yet, the admin refused to admonish the culprits. When I mention discrepancies, my comments are removed.
Edited by admin. The policy applies to all, michael, you just happen to be standing head and shoulders above the rest at the moment. Tune it down and this will not be necessary. The n’th uncharitable condemnation of Essentials and anybody vaguely Essentials-friendly isn’t adding anything to your argument. This is my last word on the subject - the Blog Rules are posted at the top of the site and are not particularly onerous.
“The policy applies to all, michael, you just happen to be standing head and shoulders above the rest at the moment.”
OBVIOUSLY, the policy is NOT applying to all since I fail to see other comments either being deleted or edited.
Head and shoulders above the rest…you bet ya bottom dollar on that one!
Just for clarification:
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial messages in an online community…..
A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception within an Internet community…….
I’d rather be an IT than a SP….
Thanks!
#28 Cathy
Nice timing, this was on my list of posts to do on my blog to see what opinions came back. The can of worms is now officially open, knock yourself out, be polite and patient if I don’t approve right away. I work nights. PW
I might do that Cathy, I’ll have to think about it a bit…..
Prairie Words
Where is your blog?
Cathy, click on “Prairie Words”.