Good morning, again, on the penultimate day of Synod. I’ve just got the orders of service and it looks like SSB will be dealt with at 10.15 CET this morning. Right now we are in a Eucharistic service.
To be honest, I do not know how they are going to get all resolutions dealt with; there is a list as long as your arm of resolutions to be considered. It’s going to be a packed couple of days.
The other day I captured a video of the Zaccheaus Fellowship speaking at Essentials. Unfortunately, though ironically appropriate, I did not capture the voice for some reason. So once again Zaccheaus has no voice – sorry folks.
If I have the time I will summarise the high/lowlights of Synod for you, sometime after it is finished probably….
Two things for you: 1) The additional C motions (produced by delegates here) are not on the website – I have a hjard copy should we ever get that far (unlikely). 2) A187 has an amendment proposed by Steven Koning (Dio Calgary) adding the follwing words “provided that adequate provision is made by the diocesan synod for those clergy and/or parishes who do not agree with the way such authority is exercised.”
The full resolution would then read:
That this General Synod affirm the authority and jurisdiction of any diocesan synod, with the concurrence of its bishop, to authorize the blessing of committed same sex unions provided that adequate provision is made by the diocesan synod for those clergy and/or parishes who do not agree with the way such authority is exercised.
This is basically a concience clause to A187, IMHO it would be treated as friendly and accepted. Doubtful it would make much difference at the end of the day though.
Peter Ould in the comments on this thread said he has a chat room set up here if you want an IM style conversation this morning. I may not have time to join you at the moment 
.
Oh, while thinking about other links, don’t forget the Prayer room here: http://prayerroom.7.forumer.com/. Terms and conditions differ from this blog, it’s for prayers and not open for dissenting opinion.
Service is finished, we now have 25 minutes or so before we are in session.
A186 Blessing of Same Sex Unions – Core Doctrine of ACC
That this General Synod resolves that the blessing of same-sex unions is consistent with the core doctrine of The Anglican Church of Canada.
NB: ‘Consistent’ may now be ‘not in conflict’ – think that amendment was regarded as friendly and passed, not sure though. Update: It is so amended.
Abp joking about confusion…want you to think about economy of words…..be breif…..lots of resolutions to complete. Reflect on the content, useful could be accomplished in 2 mins. House be willing to reduce 3 to 2 minutes. House says yes.
Ah, report from nomination committee….CoGS members….not a hope of me typing them in time.
Now 16 sspeakers on resolution
Dio Arctic David Parsons – Two doors ahead of us. Are you 100% sure that H.S. says yes? If 1% unsure, then please wait. Why would H.S. speak to others with different voice?
Dio Fredricton – Speaking against. Church is becoming part of society, no speaking about sin. Homosexual lifespan is reduced.
Dio Athabasca. Makes us think about what we believe. We do not agree. SSB is very closely related to marriage, convinced SSU is new and different in life of church. Onus is on what is new to convince. Cannot vote for motion.
Dio Calgary James Robinson. Speaking against, telling story.
Dio Calgary Richard LeSeur. Speaking in favour. Can find water in oasis, oasis is gift of God. Standing at an oasis right now, talking about oppressed people now, task is to welcome this community, know the blessedness of their relationship. Church understrand their mission.
Dio Ottowa Peter. Nothing that we decide this week will change people going to Church. We still have differences after this Synod. Stand in favour, not a major step, just an incremental step – discern spirit moving in church. G/L can we just say prayers with them. This is just a transitional step before marriage.
Dio Calgary Gene Packwood. Point of information – could a future synod reverse A186 at a single synod if this is passed? Answer – yes. Will come back over and over again if defeated or passed. Speaking against motion. We are taking a momentous step – removing this from Synod. Scripture about itching ears (thats going to leave a mark).
Dio ? Robin Thompson – Speaking in favour. We have done study. Should be talking about marriage.
Dio ? – Spirit of boldness not timidity. We have nothing to fear but fear itself. We are doing best we can to offer dignity and integrity. Scriptural references of homosexuality miss the mark…I am a sinner, remarried…..two bishops at myu reception
Dio Fredricton David Edwards. Stand as changed man – hoped we would make definitive decision, changed becasue think spirit is saying ‘wait’. Talking about Acts 10, but chapter 11 is important, Peter had to go back to elders to explain what is going on, elders accept what spirit is saying. Today looks like we are going to use worlds way not Gods way. Please bear with one another.
Dio Toronto Steven Peake. Speaking against, will alienate theological conservatives.
Dio ?. Call on the church to protect us. Many of my friends were killed. Speaking to order of bishops – please stand up with us, do not perpetuate injustice, can’t afford to wait more.
Dio NWest Neale Adams. If a majoirty c/l determine blessings, threat is letting this dispute fester (they’re focussing on the bishops).
Dio ? Nowhere do I see homosexuality is good.
Dio Caledonia. Support motion. Accept people as they are, talking about suicide. Need to get on with gods work.
Dio Niagra. Gays lesbians standing alone. We love you, but. Draw the circle wide, others are saying but. We have confimed integrity and sanctity. Put this in perspective, motion should pass quickly, don’t tie in knots, lets do Gods work.
Those are the 16 speakers.
Point of order. Make clear to synod – resoluition is A186. Need to make this clear.
New speaker – We are decerning whether or not to allow litergy to celebrate blessing that is already there. Can’t withold blessing, we will be blessed as a Church.
Hearing two other requests, calling for the question. No motion to close debate.
Steve Schuh New West. Does SSB conflict with core doctrine. Not mentioned anywhere in 39 articles, solemn declaration etc. Understands Bible does not mean same sex acts (rather rape and prostitution)
Speaker Abp York Do not send conflicting messages. Identity as Anhglican Church. Suggest surprised about H.S leading us comments.
Move debate closed.
Procedural motion, amendment put in. No, the move to close takes precedence.. takes 2/3…will do this by counting.
C/L 152/92 ?
B 21/19 Fails
Motion fails debate is still open.
Dio Ruperts Land. Think A186 may be in conflict with SMR. Move in procedural motion…..postpone consideration until 2010 for proper theological consideration. Need to discern spirit, therefore should postpone. Refocus on the theological question.
Motion is done by majority
B Passed 22/14
C/L Failed 122/128
Motion fails – very very close. An interesting shift on the C/L side – looks like some there are wavering?
More speakers
Dio Edmonton Joe Walker. Who will lead church? Do we have mechanism to determine what is or in not in conflict? Don’t think statemnt of doctrine will help G/L overseas. We are not Anglicans here but pentecostals – everything is of the spirit all at once.
Dio Kootney. Make friendly amendment. after ‘core doctrine’ put ‘in the sense of being non-creedal’. Movers do not understand intent, reluctant to change motion. Will come to a vote.
Point of order.Some procedural stuff.
Now debate on amendment.
Bp Ingham. Double negative – should be ‘in the sense of being creedal’. Considered a friendly amendment.
Amendment to amendment 
oh my goodness ‘(in the sense of being creedal)’. Moved and seconded as amendment to amendment – friendly amendment to amnedment, therefore the amendment to amendment is incorporated. Are you getting this?
Putting q on amendment – carried.
Voting on the amendment now.
Motion is done by majority
B Carried
C/L Carried
Bp Toronto Move amended motion be put to q.
B Carried
C/L Carried
This is it…..the motion is done by majority……prayers…..
C/L 152 / 97 Passed
B 21 / 19 Passed
Motion Carried
FYI Victoria Matthews stood in favour…
Lord have mercy upon us.
A187 Blessing of Same Sex Unions
That this General Synod affirm the authority and jurisdiction of any diocesan synod, with the concurrence of its bishop, to authorize the blessing of committed same sex unions
Speaker ? talking now about deep division. (And this is a move of the spirit????). All about local option.
Dio Ottowa Garth Bulmer speaking in favour. Sees what we have just done as a new covenant with G/L.
Breaking for lunch.
NB: the problem with commenting here is that Askimet, the automatic spam system is classifying some comments as spam. I have despammed where I can. Please try not to be Anon with pwd anon@anon because Askimet finds you suspicious. I cannot change the settings sorry.
This is the final resolution that passed as A186:
That this General Synod resolves that the blessing of same-sex unions is not in conflict with the core doctrine (in the sense of being creedal) of The Anglican Church of Canada.
NB: This came down to 1 bishop. If 1 bishop had gone the other way it would have been 20-20. None of us are quite sure at the moment what that would have meant.
Back after lunch now.
Maybe they don’t want us to see what’s going on. Talk about confusion! It’s like the tower of Babel!!!
Peter, can you post the final language of 186?
Pete – there is no video feed so we are dependent on your blogging. Can you please be a bit more explicit in your additions so we can understand what’s going on.
Thanks.
Ditto to Peter #53
Did the bishop of Athabasca (John Clarke) stand in favour?
Best I can reconstruct is this:
That this General Synod resolves that the blessing of same-sex unions is not in conflict with the core doctrine in the sense of being creedal of The Anglican Church of Canada.
OK, the problem with commenting is that Askimet, the automatic spam system is classifying some comments as spam. I have despammed where I can. Please try not to be Anon with pwd anon@anon because Askimet finds you suspicious. I cannot change the settings sorry.
Peter Ould – I will do the best I can, though my fingers are aching at the moment; I’m no speed typist unfortunately. I will clarifyy further in a minute, but I hope you got the gist.
Video is back on line!! Hurrah!!! Sentamu (++Ebor) being nice and orthodox at the moment.
Makes a change from the Canadians…
OK, I’m off for lunch now back this pm.
Video is NOT back, see announcement on Video page. So please don’t have too long a lunch Peter
Peter,
Thanks again for all the reporting that you are doing
When you have a moment could you list all the Bishops that were in Favor and not in Favor of SSB.
When you mentioned Victoria Matthews stood in favor what did that mean?
She is my Bishop and at the present moment I am not very happy with her!!!
God Bless
One step closer to blessing SSU….lets get this done and move on!!!
The Holy Spirit has now it seems told the Canadian Church that the blessings of SSU’s is not in conflict with the core doctrine of the Anglican Church of Canada. But He only seemed to tell about half the Bishops that and quite a few laity weren’t listening clearly to Him. Or is He saying two different things? I have always said the St. Michael’s Report was a Trojan Horse. It’s absurd dealing with various layers of doctrine has now borne its fruit.
Just home from Church (the Holy Spirity was there, if anyone was missing Him) and catching up.
Does it matter what the next vote is? The Anglican Church of Canada has determined – doesn’t matter how close the vote – that it is not in conflict with the blessing of same sex unions. Whether they actually decide to go ahead with it or not, we have a serious theological/doctrinal conflict and as for me and my house, we will follow the Lord, and leave the Canadian communion.
We give thanks and prayers for Essentials to whom we will be looking for leadership in the coming weeks.
Funnily enough, we were at church this morning too, and the Holy Spirit was with us as well as with all who worship God and love Jesus.
And we prayed for the outcome of General Synod and of today’s vote, that the Holy Spirit would guide us in doing God’s will. And we prayed for unity amidst all this talk of division that feels so needless to us, since we all proclaim Jesus as our Saviour, and look to the Bible as the Word of God.
Let us rejoice in God’s great love and share it with all of God’s people.
64 Anglican Church of Canada has determined – doesn’t matter how close the vote – that it is not in conflict with the blessing of same sex unions.
Not yet. The “core doctrine” concept is being used here for mischevous purposes but I have no problem with the statement that SSBs are not inconsistent with “the core doctrine (in the sense of being creedal) of The Anglican Church of Canada.” The question remains: are they inconsistent with the doctrine of the church in all its fulness?
My wife and I just joined the Essentials this morning as 04Jude intends to do with his family.
We just hope that our parish will follow. If not, there will be another parish in communion with the Church without the ACC.
I am totally dismayed by the way this whole issue of SSB has been dealt with at General Synod. Wording twisted, manipulated so as to totally confuse even the wisest among us. Do they not realize that you cannot change scripture and even though they may pass motions this whole issue will always be of man not God. May He forgive us.
As if the will of almightly God can be decided on by a majority vote! Very sad, In conscience I can’t give a cent more to the ACC.
“When you have a moment could you list all the Bishops that were in Favor and not in Favor of SSB.”
If I can, unfortunately I do not know everybody – anybody knowing more is free to add to this thread. This I know:
Dio Calgary Derek Hoskin voted AGAINST the motion
Dio Edmonton Victoria Matthews voted FOR the motion
The motion says that the Anglican Church of Canada believes it’s accepted teachings do now and always have been able to include the “blessing” of same-sex unions. To bless something is to make it holy. This is not consistent with my theology.
from Miriam-Webster online:
Bless
1 : to hallow or consecrate by religious rite or word
2 : to hallow with the sign of the cross
3 : to invoke divine care for — used in the phrase bless you to wish good health especially to one who has just sneezed
Peter,
how did Bishop Hiltz vote? Did you notice?
The muddled use of doctrine really added to the fog in which the debate took place. We have doctrine, creedal doctrine, core doctrine, and adiaphora. The problem is there are levels of seriousness and connection which remain unexplored and undefined BETWEEN these levels.
Saying it is not credal leaves two big questions unanswered–what exactly does credal mean, and, if it is noncredal, how important is it?
Does anyone know how Percy Coffin Diocese of Western Newfoundland voted. He is probably the shortest Bishop there and follicely(sp?) challenged. He is our Bishop and I am very worried.
Webcast seems to be back online
Sound on video, but no picture. Yeah!
Yay Uncle Derek!!
If anyone is still reading comments here (just having returned from 3 services), can someone explain my way out of the total confusion I’m experiencing?
Matthews chaired the theological commission. The commission concluded that SSB were a matter of doctrine, but not core doctrine. She just (I read) voted in favour of a motion which contradicts that conclusion.
Is this not the perfect image of a house divided? Or am I just missing some internal logic in my post-liturgical quiet time?
There were others obviously who agreed with me ie those that voted against the motion that s/s b do not violate core…credal or whatever beliefs.
In my estimation it clearly violates the definition of “catholic” in my creed. I refer to Vincent of Lerins’ definition: quod ubique, quod semper, quod ab omnibus.
As usual appeals to history are only made when they support your cause otherwise dismissed irrelevances.
A New Covenant [with G/Ls] ….what was in the jello?
If the second vote is never held, there is still enough room to drive a freight train through with the “credal” resolution.
Do not be under any illusion that this is the end of the shopping list.
It is the thin edge of the wedge and now any action will be justified by that vote taken today.
Theology by show of hands and the rule of the 50% + 1
Peter,
If you go to the Anglican Church of Canada web site, under Anglican Identity you will find the 39 Articles listed. Perhaps, I don’t properly understand the significance of the 39 Articles, however, from my perspective and based on Article 20 I don’t believe this synod has the authority to do what they have done.
XX. Of the Authority of the Church.
The Church hath power to decree Rites or Ceremonies, and authority in Controversies of Faith: And yet it is not lawful for the Church to ordain any thing that is contrary to God’s Word written, neither may it so expound one place of Scripture, that it be repugnant to another. Wherefore, although the Church be a witness and keeper of holy Writ, yet, as it ought not to decree any thing against the same, so besides the same ought it not to enforce any thing to be believed for the necessity of Salvation.
Ric – do you think the thin edge makes it easier to skate the slippery slope?
Bob,
Note that the 39 articles are not to be found in the Book of Alternative Services which we are all supposed to be using.
I think that’s the point of the first motion – to agree that there is nothing in the doctrine that forbids it, therefore they have the authority to resolve the “controversy of faith”.
Hard to tell who may be expounding one place to make another repugnant – olde english isn’t my forte.
[...] the texts of the two motions decided today, as recorded by Peter at Essentials Synod blog. Resolution A186 was approved: That this General Synod resolves that the blessing of same-sex unions is not in [...]
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